Redwall Mafia Game Thread MAFIA WINS

[Sniklac16]

I've been suspicious of zag from the very start, and now that he's trying really hard to get everyone to roleclaim strikes me even more. Yes scum knows whos townie but they don't know whos who. For instance if we had a doctor or cop scum doesn't know which of us is the sum or doctor. And by you trying to get everyone to claim makes me think you just wanna figure out whos who so you know who to kill off night two. So for now....

vote Zag
_________________
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

[Zag]

[Courk]

Mass claiming, even names, gives the scum an idea of what names are in a game, thus helping them come up with lies. The only way to prevent that is to have the mafia go first, which is impossible to guarantee. Plus, if it's possible to figure out who scum are from their names, it's possible for the scum to figure out who the power roles are from the names. It's still be a guess on their part, but they'd have a better idea. Imagine a LOTR mafia. Player A claims Galadriel, and Player B claims Rosie. Mafia would be more likely to target Player A.

On top of that, you don't even know if you can catch the mafia in a lie. UM could have given the scum safe claims, so now the scum know from the mod that no one is Arwen, so one of the scum can claim that role.

Mass claiming does have the potential to give information, but I think it's best when coupled with other information gathered in the game, which we don't have much of yet at the start of day 2.

[Zag]

Thanks, Courk. All I wanted was an explanation. As I said above, I don't know the books well enough to know if you could infer roles from names. If so, then I am totally against any sort of claiming. But humor me, if you would -- at what point would it makes sense? Is if ever a good idea? Then when? If it is never, then why have you all attacked the poor newb, who didn't know any better, rather than the experienced player who brought up the idea in the first place?

[Courk]

There's no cut-and-dry time when role claiming or name claiming is the definite route. Every game progresses so differently that it's hard to come up with a definite scenario. What it basically comes down to, though, is that the risk of mafia gleaning some information is less than the rewards of having everyone claim.

If, for one example, there was a player with a known and proven ability that allowed them to see other people's role, having the most suspicious people role claim would force the scum to either tell the truth and hope that the role can be spinned to sound good, or lie and be found out by that power.

[Lamont_Cranston]

[Zag]

Again, thanks, Courk.

Since there are now four votes against me, and only one more is needed to lynch, I have to assume that all the scum have already voted for me. (I suppose, from your point of view, you have to assume that either that is true, or that I am scum. I don't have any more to say in my defense, other than to point out how easily you were able to accumulate 4 votes.)

On the other hand, I am concerned that only one of the votes against me is scum, and the other one is playing a Wall-E right now and not logging in. I can just see the active scum PM'ing the inactive one three times a day to tell him to get on and vote! (Are scum allowed to communicate privately during the day, or only at night?) If they could bring the population down to 5-to-2 (or 4-to-3! How many are there, anyway?), they'd almost have a lock on the game.

In either scenario, I'd really appreciate it if someone who has voted for me can prove their worthiness by unvoting.

Please? ~Holds hat in both hands, teeth chattering slightly.~ (Sorry, still stuck in role-playing mode.)

[Courk]

unvote Zag just to take the pressure off, we don't need day 2 ending this quickly with, again, very little information gained. I would still like to be voting for you.

FOS: Sniklac

Firstly, his initial reason for being suspicious of Zag was that Zag, a newbie, didn't know how to play mafia. That's a rather flimsy reason. Zag is suspicious, but not for that reason. Secondly, he had another flimsy vote on Sab for Sab not having voted. I addressed that earlier. I don't like flimsy voting, and especially not twice.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well, I still see him as town though.

He declined to vote for Creative, waiting for his defense instead.

He backed of Zag earlier when he didn't have to....

But ya, The Sab case was definitely a weak one.

I see Loki as much scummier for BW-ing, actually starting the roleclaim idea, he even said he didn't care who died just as long as the game moved forward. That definitely sounds more like scum to me.
_________________
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

[Zag]

Whew. Thanks, Courk, for the third time in as many days. I understand your suspicion of me, and I appreciate you easing back on it a bit. Lamont, any chance you, also, could, umm, point that gun away from my vital organs?

My FoS list:
creativemind: For the reasons I stated above -- that he is the only one to have a motive to kill Poisonium. It's a pretty weak motive, though, so I could be talked out of it.

MNOWAX and Sniklac16: Both for jumping on bandwagons at the earliest possible moment that they looked bandwagon-y, against both Poison and me. They were 3rd and 4th in each of those two bandwagons, conveniently swapping places. Does it sound coordinated to you?

I don't include Loki, because (obviously) I didn't think that considering role-claiming to be suspicious, at least at the time. (I wouldn't go near it now, though. Sheesh!) I think it would be a little hypocritical of me to finger him for bringing it up. On the other hand, his bandwagon-organizing against sab is a little suspicious, even though I fell for it at the time. On the other other hand, he could have hammered me any time since snik put in the 4th vote against me, and I know he's been online. I'm starting to sound like Tevye now, so I'll shut up.

[Loki]

I'm confused by the people claiming THIS person's alright, and THAT person's alright. Are they working off nighttime information I'm not privvy to? Courk doesn't seem so fine to me. And Sniklac is probably likeliest to be scum in my mind. I don't know Lamont well enough to know if he's acting scummy squirrely or is always squirrely.

I'm just going to go with my gut for now:

vote: Sniklac

[MNOWAX]

i would be Voting Loki for starting the rolecalim idea, but i think he is town.
someone who even starts to agree with mass roleclaim is anxious to get this game over with.
_________________
The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Sniklac16]

I understand that Loki was the first person to suggest a mass role claim, but he only mentioned it once as to where Zag was continuously trying to get people to role claim or at the very least name claim. I had other reasons to believe to that he was suspicious not just that reason. But I didnt realize Zag was that close to a lynch so just in case no scum is voting for him yet im gonna unvote until things progress a little more.
_________________
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

[Zag]

Yeah. A nice speech. I was totally convinced. I think I'm finally starting to catch on to this game.

unvote. vote Sniklac

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Snik:What were your reasons for voting for Sab again?
_________________
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

[Lamont_Cranston]

[Loki]

Townies are under siege and are more likely to be running to and fro, reacting emotionally. The mafia are the ones who plot and manipulate slowly and methodically.

Anyway, Courk is logical and deliberate whether she's mafia or townie. Hell, she probably doesn't even read her role pm until day 3, just to keep up a front.

I'm sad to say this is me calm and rational. I'm not sorry for lynching Sab. Didn't you read my reasons for wanting him out of the way in the first place? He never votes. He slows down a game of Mafia like, hrm, he's made out of Wondra.

What's with the whey comment? Is that some sort of secret mason signal? A miller thing? I feel like I'm playing Bridge with people who know all the codes.

[Lamont_Cranston]

No its just a funny way of saying "way". Your anti-town attitude runs far deeper than Sab. You are on record saying that we need to lynch anyone as long as we just get a lynch. As town you should be more careful with your voting.
_________________
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

[Loki]

Lamont, man, you weren't here for the long Bataan Death March that was Day 1. We would go days with nothing happening. So, yeah, it was Sab or the entire game.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Hmmm....

Well the time aspect of the game doesn't translate well on a re-read...

@Courk: What do you think of Loki's "time defense" and needing to lynch people so aggressively?
_________________
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

[MNOWAX]

Loki's cool Lamont.

I think that our scum team right now isof the following people, Zag, Snik, Lamont, and maybe courk

I have done some math though, If we lynch someone who is a townie, it could be game over for us. Assuming we lynch a townie, it ill be 4-3 (assuming 3 mafia member in this size game is normal but pushing it) and if no doc protect, it will be 3-3 and they have a lock on the game ( they can stop any lynch and just systematically kills us every night until the entire town is dead. )

That being said, i guess im going to have to claim.

I am Basil Stag Hare, the resident Cop in this game. I have an inno on Loki, which is why i stood up for him earlier. My god i hope there is a Doc in the house.

The plan i think will work is to No-Lynch, and let me go scum finding. the scum have no choice but to go doc hunting (hopefully there is one, otherwise i am a dead man) while i find them. If i can catch at least one, that will give us some breathing room.
_________________
The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Zag]

Ugh. I have no experience by which to judge this. Is this claim more likely to be true, or to be a scum ploy? I'd really like some more experienced players to weigh in.

I guess I wonder why you were so ready to pile on to at least two bandwagons, MNO, if "no lynch" is actually an option. (I didn't realize that it was.) I would think you would just try to stall until people came around to that conclusion.

[Courk]

There is at least one other mason out there, and guessing by the size of the game, it's only one mason.

What if the mason claims? If mafia tries to claim it, and the real one counters, MNOWAX can figure out who is mafia. If only one person claims it and everyone else claims to not be the mason, then that's another innocent we'll know without having to use MNOWAX's power.

[MNOWAX]

Masons are pairs of people. they are hard to confirm, because a mason pair can be mimiced by a scum pair.

i can always check people out, but the less info out there, the better for the town

I am one to lynch someone to get to night so i can check people out. normally no lynch is not a good idea (in fact 95% percent of the time it isnt a good idea) but this is the one time that it is beneficial for the town.

UNvote, Vote: No-Lynch
_________________
The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Courk]

There is already one mason dead. We know a masonry existed, and I'm guessing there's only one more mason left. Yes, the mafia can pretend to be the remaining mason, but even is mafia A claims to be mason, and Mason B claims to be mason, you can check one. No matter what result you get, we would be able to figure out which one was mafia. If only one person claims, that person would be the mason, thus one more person that's known to be innocent.

1 person claims mason
- this person could be the mason.
- this person could be mafia, but in that case the real mason would come forward and say "no, I'm the mason", thus leading to 2 people claiming mason, making the only-1-person-claiming-mason-and-that-person-is-really-mafia scenario impossible.

2 people claim mason
- one is the mason, and one is mafia
- MNOWAX checks the mason, gets innocent, we know the other one is mafia
- MNOWAX checks the mafia, gets guilty, we lynch that one.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Courk, this sounds terribly suspicious. The extra mason claim will make it much easier for the scum to find the Doc. Why in the world would you want that?

FoS Courk
_________________
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

[Courk]

Bah, I made up this big long (long, long, long -- it had an outline and everything) post showing how knowing who the mason was led to favorable scenarios for us, but then realized that was assuming the mason was not Loki, which can't really be guaranteed. My brain is now mush, so I'm not sure how that really affects everything. Anyway, the basic idea behind the mason claiming is that it makes it easier to find the mafia. At least as long as the mason isn't Loki.

And at any rate, I wasn't saying the mason should claim right now, I was discussing what if the mason claimed -- would that be beneficial long-term?

[Zag]

So, everyone rips me a new one for naively supporting Loki's role-/name-claim idea, including Courk, but then Courk has this brilliant idea to get one person to claim without being required to claim herself (and possibly get caught in a lie). Brilliant!

So, it is my understanding that anyone who is clearly caught in a lie should be assumed to be mafia, right? I wasn't clear in my sarcastic reply to Snik, but let me point out his obvious lie here, where he was trying to backpeddle from his obvious piling on:

[Zag]

Oh yeah. I meant to ask MNOWAX:

Even if your claim of being a cop is not a scummy ploy, which I'm not convinced of, how sure are you that you aren't an insane cop or an always-sees-innocent cop (sorry, I forget the name)?

[Lamont_Cranston]

[MNOWAX]

ok firstly, i apologize for not seeing that a mason was killed ( i looked on the front page and only saw townies.

as for me, to be an insane or naive cop in this size game is outright wrong, and we all would be screwed anyway.

Trust me, im the real deal dawg.
_________________
The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Courk]

[Lamont_Cranston]

[Courk]

Yes, it assumed the doc died tonight. Again, though, it started with a flawed assumption anyway.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Funny my mistake. It points out that once the Doc goes the Cop follows.
_________________
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

[Sniklac16]

So let me get this straight...first you wanted everyone to role-claim or at the very least name-claim and now you just want the other mason to claim? It wouldnt really matter if the other mason claimed his ability is gone since ones already dead
_________________
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

[Lamont_Cranston]

[Sniklac16]

[Lamont_Cranston]

[Courk]