Redwall Mafia Game Thread MAFIA WINS

[Undercover Monk]

Night 3

We awoke on day 4 of our ordeal thankful that we had finally nabbed a rat but fearing the reprisal that was sure to come and sure enough there was one head missing. That head was the sAbLLimINal, formerly known as Loki. And with the evidence found he was revealed to be Warbeak Sparra who could fly one person a night to safety. We searched for the body but it was never found we mourned another victim of Cluny's wrath. Meanwhile it was time to get down to business.

sAbLLimINal 2.0 is killed. He was a town oriented doctor
with 4 alive it takes 3 to lynch


P.S. Sorry about the delay I have been busy. I have been in communication with shadowfox over the night and he has apologized for his lurkiness I am awaiting a conformation from him as to wheteher he can continue if he can not I have a final replacement lined up. More on this developement in the next couple days. Happy killing
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Courk]

I'm suspicious of Zag. *waits for MNOWAX's results*

[Zag]

I'm suspicious of Courk. *waits for MNOWAX's results*

[Zag]

I also wanted to mention that I AM now the hero, having killed the scum roleblocker. I thought I was pretty sure when I made the vote, but I was surprisingly relieved when UM actually confirmed it. I guess I wasn't as sure as I had thought.

So, aside from the snarking between Courk and me , what do we really know? The four people voting for Lamont were: sAbLLimINal, MNO, Courk, and me. So either shadowfox is the remaining scum, or there was a scum vote in there, someone trying to get a little distance, perhaps, and then finding themselves trapped and unable to back out of the vote without being ridiculously obvious.

I guess there's no point in any more speculation until we hear what MNO has to say. I assume that there is no way for him to claim that he was role-blocked, this time. I just hope he's a real cop, and not a naive one.

[Courk]

You voting for Lamont seemed like a way of you trying to distance yourself from him, along the lines of "Mafia wouldn't place the lynching vote on their own" -- especially with the big deal you made of pointing out that you were the lynching vote.

[Zag]

Uh huh. That totally makes sense. Now I realize it! I am the other scum! That must be it!

Seriously, I made a big deal out of it because such a big deal was made of it when I did it before. Of course, now I realize that Lamont was the instigator there, though you and MNO did pile on somewhat.

[MNOWAX]

Who is the Vig / SK?
_________________
The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Courk]

Why?

[Zag]

[MNOWAX]

NO i need to know who is the VIG / SK?
_________________
The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[MNOWAX]

For the good of the Town, you need to come out before i reveal my results. They are interesting. Zag? Courk? ShadowFox? Which one of you is Vig / SK?
_________________
The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Zag]

Fine. I don't understand how it can really help, but I'm ready to move on to something else, so I guess I'll trust you.

I am a Vigilante, but on even-numbered nights only, and I have no action on odd-numbered nights. That is why I was pushing so hard to figure out SOMETHING on day 2, because I knew I had a kill coming that night.

[MNOWAX]

ok thanks. Courk is the last Scum GG town.

Vote Courk
_________________
The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[MNOWAX]

heres why i didnt come right out and say it. i only knew that Courk was scum, but i wasnt sure if she was a SK or scum. If she claimed Vig, two things would have happened.

1: the real SK/Vig would have counter-Claimed Vig and claimed the kill, so that even if lynching Courk didnt end the game, we would know who to lynch afterwards..

or

2: No counter claim. That means she probably is the SK, and we needed to lynch someone else first, and hope that we hit scum. the SKourk would have to go with us to find the final scum, or risk being taken out by the remaining mafia member that night

3: No counter claim with there being a SK still in game. This would be our worst case scenario. thankfully it didnt happen,.
_________________
The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Courk]

Here's the thing: I am the SK. There's mafia still out there.

Also, I killed Escaped Convict on night 2, meaning Zag is claiming the kill on Sniklac -- who we knew to be innocent at the time, since he claimed to be the second mason. What vig kills a known pro-town role?

Vote: Zag

[Zag]

Nice try Courk, but a little too late. I killed Escaped Convict, which is the only night kill I've had a chance to make. vote: Courk

[Courk]

But you didn't. I was planning on claiming vig, which is why I definitely did not kill an innocent. At that point I had yet to make a kill, having been blocked night 1, so I had no idea if kills would be distinguishable. Why would I kill a confirmed innocent when most games make it obvious if someone was killed by a different party? That would have completely ruined my ability to claim vig.

[Courk]

Also, if you are a vigilante, why did you choose to kill on night 2? We didn't have much information. Heck, as a person who was going to claim vig, I considered not killing on night 2, since a vig shouldn't have killed that night.

[Zag]

Because I thought I had a better than even chance of being right, and, frankly, I didn't want to waste my one chance to DO something.

And the argument works better aimed back at you: If you're a serial killer, why didn't you kill last night?

[Courk]

I did.

[Courk]

Actually, there was a pattern, I just didn't notice it:

sab 2.0 - never found
EC - never found
Snicklac - found dead
poisonium - found dead

I'm responsible for the never founds, proving Zag is lying about who he targeted.

[MNOWAX]

so you are claiming that the scum didnt try to kill last night? or they were lucky enough to find the doc same as you? it was obvious who Sab was protecting.

Its all bullshit, nice try though, courk. Ill remember to save a manatee before we lynch you
_________________
The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Courk]

The best play for the town right now is to vote no lynch.

Unvote: Zag
Vote: No lynch

You know I'm SK, I've admitted it. Zag you cannot be completely sure about being town. I'm going to target Zag tonight, and Zag will obviously target me.

If Zag is scum, a lynch today gives him the win after a kill tonight. If he's not scum, then a lynch of me today would give the town the win. However, if he's not scum, then us killing each other tonight will still give the town the win.

I follow Amb's philosophy on SKs: First try to win on your own. If that fails, make sure the mafia loses.

No lynch is the only way to guarantee the town has won.

[MNOWAX]

the guarantee for a town win is to watch you hang.
_________________
The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Courk]

You don't know that. You do not know that Zag is innocent for sure. You have a gut feeling, but you never investigated him, so there is no way you know for sure. There is no way I can win this game now, so no lynching and going into night does not benefit me in any way. I will die tonight because Zag can kill me. If by some random happenstance I do not die, it's still 2 vs 1 in the morning, and I can be lynched then. You need to account for the fact that, despite what you feel, you cannot and do not know Zag's alignment. You lose nothing by having me die tonight or lynching me tomorrow.

[MNOWAX]

[Courk]

Zag has admitted to being able to kill as a claimed vig. I've admitted to being able to kill as a claimed SK. What I'm saying is that Zag seems like mafia to me, and you are not absolutely sure he is not mafia. You're only "pretty confident," not sure. The only way to guarantee that the town wins is to no lynch today.

If you lynch me now and Zag is mafia, it turns into 1 vs 2 going into night, he'll kill one of you, resulting in 1 vs 1 in the day, mafia win.

If you lynch me now and Zag is not mafia, yes, town wins.

If you no lynch now, and Zag is mafia, Zag and I kill each other over night, town wins.

If you no lynch now and Zag is not mafia, Zag and I kill each other over night, town wins.

If Zag is telling the truth, there would be 3 killing factions in this game. I am the SK, I am not mafia. I am Asmodeus. If Zag is mafia, however, there would only be 2 killing factions, mafia and SK, and that makes more sense I think. Zag has not been able to prove he's killed who he claims he's killed. I have the consistency that my claimed kills have disappeared.

Does it make sense that the vig can only kill on odd-numbered nights? Not to me. A vig is self-limiting, a vig does not kill willy-nilly. A vig is not likely to kill on night 1 as it is, so why restrict that? A vig is also not overly likely to kill on night 2 absent any good information or suspicions. I don't think it makes any sense for a vig to be limited by the mod. Use Occam's razor. Does it make more sense for there to be an SK, a limited vig, and mafia? Or is a 2-person mafia with the added ability of role-blocker with an SK more likely?

There is no way I can win, just please guarantee the town the win instead of handing the game over to the mafia.

[MNOWAX]

so you are NOW saying Mafia No killed? because it is obvious that Sab was protecting me, and it would be pretty unlikely that both mafia and SK were targetting the same person,.

either way Zag's story makes more sense with what happened anyway.

this game is in the bag.

*Hi Fives Zag*
_________________
The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Zag]

lol. The scum gets desperate. I was concerned about revealing, but well done, MNO. ~high five~

[Courk]

It's unlikely mafia and SK targetted the same person, yet it's likely the vig and the SK targetted the same person night 2?

Here's who was alive going into night:

Zag
Courk
MNOWAX
shadowfox
sab 2.0

Obviously I wasn't going to target myself, and MNOWAX was protected. That left my options at Zag, shadowfox, and sab 2.0. Now, I found Zag most suspicious and could build a case against him, so my options were now shadowfox and sab 2.0. sab had been found innocent, shadowfox hadn't. So I targetted sab 2.0, which was really the only option I had. I'm not going to kill the one I can build a case against, I couldn't kill MNOWAX, and I'm not going to let a confirmed innocent live when I need as many suspicious people alive.

Now, look at it from Zag's mafia POV:

Zag was not going to target himself. Zag could not kill MNOWAX. He was obviously suspicious of me and probably felt he could build a good case against me come day, leaving his options at shadowfox and sab 2.0. Like with me, it's beneficial to have the confirmed innocent dead. Even if it was just a choice between shadowfox and sab 2.0 for him, that's still a 50% chance we'd choose the same target.

Remember yesterday when MNOWAX was saying that the roleblocker knows who the vig/SK is because they were blocked, and how I kept saying that it was not necessarily the case? I was blocked night 1, which is why I didn't doubt MNOWAX had been blocked. I didn't say anything about being blocked because I was planning on claiming vig -- I couldn't exactly defend being a vig who tried to kill on night 1. However, I kept saying that they didn't necessarily block a vig/SK because I didn't want the mafia to think they had blocked the killer, thus knowing I was a killer. I asked MNOWAX "why" about revealing who was the SK/Vig because I was afraid of a trap like he set for Lamont. I didn't expect Zag to take advantage of it.

How does all that make sense if I'm mafia? I'm the SK, everything points to it.

Desperate would be me trying to desperately win. I am not trying to win, I'm trying to help the town win. Lynching me today does not guarantee the win. Where is the flaw in my logic?

[MNOWAX]

that you're scum?
_________________
The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Courk]

Even if you think I'm mafia, no-lynching today and having me and Zag kill each other is still the only sure-fire way the town wins. Stop being so blind to the idea that Zag can be scum -- you have no proof of that, and that blindness could cost the town the game.

[MNOWAX]

it reeks of desperation in this thread. Do you smell that Zag?
_________________
The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Undercover Monk]

Your wish is my command.
Thread is deadlined for Saturday morning.
Do not fret however because I have offered poisonium the chance to replace back in which he may do by simply posting in this thread. the deadline is a removable deadline if you guys wish it. feel free to confirm or switch votes or do nothing whatevs.

and as always happy killing
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Courk]

Saturday? That makes this day 4 days long? That's ridiculous.

I've posted my case that gives the town a 100% chance at a win. You've rejected that with no given reason. If the mafia wins, it's not my fault.

[MNOWAX]

do you know what scum's favorite cereal the day of being lynched? Rice Krispies, 'Cause all they are going to hear that day is Snap, Crackle, and Pop.
_________________
The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Undercover Monk]

24 hours to go.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Courk]

Does the replacement know this day is deadlined? I'd hate for him to be thinking "I'll start catching up now and finish on Saturday"

[Undercover Monk]

I informed him but as the deadline is passed it is unfortunately the end for Courk. Time for another fun lynch scene....

Day 4

After the shocking discovery of being left doctor list Zag and Courk immidiately faced off accusing each other, MNOWAX started looking for a vigilante or a serial killer and shadowfox did nothing. Zag said he was the heroic Vig, Courk claimed he was the SK, Shadowfox claimed nothing. Courk thought Zag was mafia, MNO thought Courk was the mafia, shadowfox thought nothing. Courk lamented a mafia win, MNO mocked the mafia, shadowfox was most likely not the mafia. So with the plan in place Zag and MNOWAX cornered Courk while shadowfox got drunk on some of the abbeys best October Ale and wandered off.

"Give it up Cluny!" said MNO aka Basil Stag Hare, the town cop. "Your reign of evil ends here." Suddenly Courk laughed as she drew herself up and hissed as she revealed that she was actually Assmodeus, King of Serpents. "Look into my eyessssssssssss rabbit and ssssssssssssleep forever." Just as the adders eyes began to take hold and the hare felt himself drifting Zag acted fast and dropped a progned chandilier right onto the deadly snake. It hissed and shook violently as the evil monster flailed about in its death throes. It appeared to us that Courk had been telling the truth she was an SK. "If hes not Cluny," said Zag "that means shadowfox....quick to the cellers."

I followed the two down searching for the fugitive. Just as we entered the cellers Basil closed the door. "What are you doing Basil?" exclaimed Zag nervously. "Afraid of the dark rat?" said the hare, "Courk warned me and I failed to listen. Well now I'm fixing that." Zag turned and I gasped as his face now wore a new murderous expression. I realized with horror that Zag was Cluny the Scourge, the leader of the rat horde and our final mafia member. "Yes and you fell for it hook, line, and sinker." They struggled, the rat with his superior strength gained an early advantage. However, Basil Stag Hare was a master of camoflague and quickly hid himself among the rows of bottles. The scourge quickly thought up and new plan and threatened to kill me first if the hare did not show himself. I turned to run, but the poison barbed tail of Cluny stopped me in my tracks. "Now now," growled the scourge, grinning wickedly, "we wouldn't want to spoil the fun." But the Cluny had made his mistake and as he turned to me Basil Stag Hare jumped out and grabbed me as he tackled the giant rat. Cluny screamed as he whipped his tail around to slash at the brave hares' unprotected back. Thinking quickly I jumped on it and pinned the scourge to the ground. This ends here said basil as he grabbed a scouting knife and prepared to finally end the ordeal.

Just then the door opened. As we both looked up to see the door open, Cluny seized his chance. He whipped the knife away from Basil slashed at his legs and threw a perfectly aimed throw right into shadowfox's heart. I rushed to his aid but I only found poor old brother Methusala, a regular townie, already dead. he must have come down to see what all the commotion was about. I turned to see Basil on the floor, his legs injured and useless, staring defiantly up at the rat. "You will never win Rat! shoted the heroic hare." "Oh, but I already have," sneered Clun, "Now die!" And I gazed in horror as Redwall's last great hope died at the hands of Cluny the scourge.


I have been spared only to write of the horrors of the scourge's conquest of what he now calls his castle. But one day we will rise and strike down the awful tyrant. Till then we at Rewall must only remember our fallen comrades, never give up hope, and try and survive one day at a time.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Undercover Monk]

Well thats it with no protection role Zag would have killed either MNO or shadow and then tied to a no lynch to do it again the next night. Result a Mafia win. Congratulations to both Lamont (thanks for replacing when the game may have died right there) and especially Zag (for surving all the way to the end on your first game.) Especially impressive since MNO had you both nailed on night 2. I also felt that props should be given to Courk (again thanks for replacing when you did) who succesfully led the town exactly where she wanted to go. A good post from Zag and a bit of bad luck caused you to lose when MNO chose your name instead of Zag's on Night 3. After the loss of the doc the only way for the town to win was either lynch shadowfox or no lynch and hope the SK and mafia killed each other. Otherwise it was a fight to see who could get the other lynched, between Zag and Courk.

Now before you start celebrating, there were a couple of twists that never got played out:

Thing you know: All roles from page 1

Things you don't know:

The two masons had a one-shot vig ability that they could use as long as both of them were alive. Poison was the first to die so they never got the chance to use it being day 1 and all. This was a refrence to a scene in the book when the only beaver in the series, hence the name, helps Constance to build a giant arrow and end up shooting a decoy of Cluny.

sAbLLimINal, aka Matthias, also had a special ability that even he didn't know about. Had shadowfox, aka Methusala, died before him his rage and grief would have awoken his warrior spirit and he also would have gained a one-shot vig ability.

Originally Matthias was to be a true vig, as I am a real fan of the role, but with such a small group and small mafia I had to restict him and came up with the idea of conditional vigs.

So with that info the setup was as follows

SCUM:
2 mafia(one RB) and 1 SK

TOWN: 1 Cop, 1 Doc, 2 Mason( aware of Conditional Vig shot), 1 Unaware Conditional Vig, and 2 normal townies.


So what do you think? was the game balanced enough? Didi you enjoy the lynch and kill scenes? Any CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is appreciated.


THANKS 4 PLAYING!!!!!
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning