How Does White Win?

[THUDandBLUNDER]

[Antrax]

This one looks a lot more solvable. I would hazard a guess the idea is to effectively stalemate black with the threat of Qe8# (if the black queen moves) so he has to play Nc6 and concede a promotion of white's d-pawn. The start is probably 1. Qe8+ Kh7 2. Qg6+ Kg8 which gets the queen in a useful place without losing tempo. The problem is that that no-good black will just move his king to f8 if left unchecked (no pun intended), and I see no good way to stop it without getting into threefold repetition and no good way of recovering if he does get to play this move.

* cue T&B telling me I got everything backwards *
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[Antrax]

Oh. Instead, I'll tell myself I'm an idiot. 1. Qe7 seems to get the job done nicely.
[edit]
Oh damn. 1.. Kh7. I'll shut up now
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After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[Antrax]

a) I really like this one. I've had so many false starts you wouldn't believe.
b) I think I have a less false start than before. Nothing as fancy as the earlier solutions, but:
Start as before: 1. Qe8+ Kh7 2. Qg6+ Kf8
Now black can't advance the g-pawn to free the queen.
3. Kxf4 Kf8 4. Kd5
Now, either black goes back and forth and falls to the eventual f6 with the queen on g6 and the black king on g8, after which f7 stalemates black as desired, or he tries 4.. Qg8
5. f4
Qc4 doesn't really do much. Qxa2 is too slow. Qe6 is met with QxQ, dxQ, Kxd and white will take black's entire queenside in time. So 5.. Qf7 6. QxQ+ KxQ 7. Kf5 and white has the opposition: 7.. d3 8. b3 Kf8 9. Kg6 and after black's king runs around the place, white advances his h-pawn, eventually either stalemating black into having to let white promote, or promoting it.
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[THUDandBLUNDER]

[Zag]

All 16 pawns still in play! Is this from a real game, or just a setup? Considering the pawns on a4, b5, and d6, it can't be real -- their positions (with the other white pawns having never moved) require 8 pawn captures and black is only missing 4 pieces. OK. I call the judge over to complain about illegal moves. I find it hard to believe that the a2, b2, and b4 pawns matter to this puzzle, but I would think that a decent puzzle maker would have left them out if they didn't.

I'm not bothering to invis, because my speculations went nowhere.

Well, I'm a hack, so I'm tempted just to move QxN first. Free material always seems good to me (in spite of the fact that those knights are completely trapped). Let's explore it.

1. QxN Kf7 (or QxN next)
2. Qd5+ Ke8 or Kf8 (if 2. .. Kf6 then 3. Qf5++)
I was thinking
3. Qb7 Kf7 (or QxN next)
4. Qxb6
next, to free another pawn, but that not only lets the black queen escape, it also puts the white queen on the black squares, killing her mobility diagonally because of all the stupid pawns. I looked a little further with that move (having learned my lesson with the last puzzle) but it went nowhere really fast.
3. Qxd4 (pinning the g7 pawn, and more material is good for a hack like me)
if 3. .. Qf8 (assuming K is on e8)
4. Qe4+ Kf7 (if Kd8 then Qb7 wins the remaining knight, and a pawn promotion can't be far behind)
I could force a queen trade, here, but I don't see that it leads to a win, only a stalemate.

Baaah. I'm stuck.
_________________

[Antrax]

I'm actually getting the impression you WOULD preferred it if I didn't try to solve these, T&B.
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[Trojan Horse]

My solution:

This is obviously not a standard Chess position, as Zag astutely pointed out. It would take the White pawns 8 captures to get to the squares they are on, and there are only 4 Black pieces missing. (And that's true regardless of which side of the board White is sitting at.)

So these guys must be playing a variant. And it seems likely that the variant is Berolina Chess, where the pawns' capturing and non-capturing moves are reversed. In other words, pawns move without capturing one square diagonally forward, and capture one square straight forward.

Under that assumption:

1. Qe8+ Kh7
2. hxh6+ Kxh6
3. Qh5++

This is not a joke. I am dead serious.

[THUDandBLUNDER]

[THUDandBLUNDER]

[Coyote]

[Coyote]

Somewhat more seriously, if the idea isn't based on illegality, I'm leaning towards Ant's idea--that is, white plays a series of moves to put black in zugzwang so he has to use up his free pawn moves.

My big problem with this idea is the freedom of white's king. Once black is in zugzwang, why not just keep moving the king until the pawn moves are exhausted? The fact that the composer settled for an illegal position makes me suspect this is a task problem of some sort, and right now my instincts are telling me that task involves a long journey by the WK (warning: instincts may be subject to change without notice).

I'm afraid any further work on this will have to wait a bit though. Sunday is my Magic playin' night.

[ralphmerridew]

The illegal position mentioned is 4K1bB/4p3/3pk1pp/3p3p/3p1Q1N/7N/Rp4pR/8

[Trojan Horse]

[THUDandBLUNDER]

OK, I plead guilty to posting a simple mate-in-one puzzle unaccompanied by a big sign saying, "This is a trick question!"
What else could it be?
:

[Antrax]

[Antrax]

That's what I thought. If you have a problem with me, then let me know directly, not through sniping my attempts to solve chess puzzles(?). I don't mind staying away from your puzzles, but at least be a big enough man to just say so.
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[THUDandBLUNDER]

[Antrax]

That's odd, because you definitely found the time to make other posts in this very forum, not to mention posting what you just did, which is certainly more invested than "yes" or "no".
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[THUDandBLUNDER]

[Antrax]

http://www.greylabyrinth.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?p=484658#484658
I was waiting until you returned to the labyrinth, to see if you want to tell me exactly how I offended you or whatnot by attempting to solve chess puzzles. Only after you posted in VSP and not here I decided I'm likely never getting an answer.
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[THUDandBLUNDER]

[Coyote]

Feedback doesn't have to mean a lengthy analysis--it could be something as simple as "you're on the right track, but you need more work on the details", or even 'you're way off base here."

As an example, in your previously posted endgame I was on the verge of abandoning my proposed solution when you responded to Zag with the 'amazingly, white can win in this position' comment. That small amount of feedback gave me the encouragement to look a little deeper. If you hadn't posted that, I doubt I would have ever solved the problem.

You don't need to take the time to throw out a whole side of beef--just toss out a bone or two to gnaw on. Sometimes that's all it takes.

[THUDandBLUNDER]

In this puzzle several things must be done in a certain order. It is one thing knowing that order, and quite another knowing how to refute a different order. Throw in a few non sequiturs and handwaving arguments and one can end up with the thankless task of trying to refute something that is not even wrong.

[Coyote]

There now, that's what I call good solid feedback. Thank you!

(Still fairly stuck, but heading off into the corner to gnaw on the bones.)

[BraveHat]

Here's what I would do, taking this to be a game where all of the pieces move in the standard way:

1. d3 At this point, it looks the mate is inevitable. It seems like black can't move any pieces without either getting them captured or initiating a forced mate series

if 1...b3, 2.axb3
if 1...f3, 2. Kxf3
if 1...Na6 2.QxN+
if 2...Kf7 3.D5+
if 3....Kf6 4.Qf5++
if 3....KE8 4.Qe4+
if 4...Kd8 5.Qa8++
if 4...Kf8 5.Qe7+ Kg8 6.Qe8+ Kh7 7.Qg6+ 8.Kg8 9.bxN threatening to promote in 2 moves. At this point, black's pawn moves would only delay white promotion as each would get captured in turn, 9...Qh7 would result in 10.Qe8++, so we can ignore the extraneous pawn moves and assume 9...Kf8 10.a7 Kg8 (or Qg8) 11. a8++
if 2...Kh7 3.Qe4+ Kg8 4.bxN leaving a similar situation as before. Kf8 would just all white to move Qe7 to perform the same series of checks with the king until white's pawn promoted.
if 1...Nc6 2.cxN threatening to promote and mate no matter what black does with his d pawn or knight. Again, black moving Qh7 would allow a back rank mate from white's queen, so she is stuck there.
if 1...Nc7 3.dxN and promotes to mate in 1
if 1...Kf8 2.Qe7 Kg8 3.Qe8+ Kh7 4.Qg6+ Kg8 5.Kxf4 and then gets out of the way of white's pawn as black's king moves back and forth between g8 and f8 and white's pawn moves up for the eventual f7++ Again, any pawn or Knight moves black does just results in captures or promotion threats or both.
Let me know if I'm missing something

[THUDandBLUNDER]

Pity about your nice indentation.