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| Do we need a new word for "kitchen", now that men use them, too? |
| Yes, the traditional definition for kitchen is a place where a woman makes food, and the word can be used only for those precise circumstances. |
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| No. Don't be stupid. |
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| Total Votes : 23 |
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casinopete
Emergency Backup Antrax
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 Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:26 am Post subject: 1 |
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I have noticed, in recent times, that our options are far too sparse for describing rooms devoted to food preparation. This has led to food-preparation rooms used by men to be called "kitchens", even though that word is properly reserved for rooms used by women.
Men are traditionally the food-gatherers, and women are traditionally the food-preparers. Men traditionally go to an office or factory during the day, and women traditionally use the kitchen and laundry. It's just traditionally how things traditionally work, and if you want to do things un-traditionally, that's fine, but make up your own word to use when you do it.
After all, I think we can all agree that the distinction is there. Men are men, and women are women. There's a biological difference. I don't have to tell anyone how important gender and sexual reproduction have been for our evolution.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for gender equality. Some of my best friends are women. I'm just not for the gender equivalence suggested by using "kitchen" indiscriminately. The Genders Are Equivalent agenda exists, and we must stand together in opposition, or watch our society crumble.
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bgg1996
BeeGees are awesome!
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:49 am Post subject: 2 |
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Men have been in the kitchen for thousands of years. Why change the word at the exact point people think that there should be equal parts men and women?
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casinopete
Emergency Backup Antrax
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:56 am Post subject: 3 |
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When I said traditionally, I didn't mean the thousands of years you are citing, I meant traditional families in the 1940's and 1950's.
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If you have some ice cream, I will give it to you.
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Courk
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:04 am Post subject: 4 |
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| Is it still a kitchen if the woman isn't barefooted? |
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extropalopakettle
No offense, but....
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:06 am Post subject: 5 |
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| Does anyone care? No, don't be stupid. |
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:30 am Post subject: 6 |
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| Can I give extro a new title of "Irony-challenged"? |
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extropalopakettle
No offense, but....
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extropalopakettle
No offense, but....
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:38 am Post subject: 8 |
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| Zag wrote: |
| Can I give extro a new title of "Irony-challenged"? |
Perhaps I am. And perhaps rather than mock me for it, you could explain the irony? Nobody owes me any favors here, but if you could please explain the irony, I would be most grateful. |
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bgg1996
BeeGees are awesome!
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:44 am Post subject: 9 |
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| casinopete wrote: |
| When I said traditionally, I didn't mean the thousands of years you are citing, I meant traditional families in the 1940's and 1950's. |
Just because people did one thing one way over 60 years ago, for a period of ten years, prior to which they did it as they do from the end of that till now. For millenia, men and women shared the kitchen, for a decade women dominated the home kitchen, while men still dominated the work kitchen, then for 6 more decades, men and women shared it again. To say that kitchen is a term that was traditionally meant for women, is stupid.
Anyway, I didn't get the impression that he was being ironic.
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:01 am Post subject: 10 |
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| extropalopakettle wrote: |
| Zag wrote: |
| Can I give extro a new title of "Irony-challenged"? |
Perhaps I am. And perhaps rather than mock me for it, you could explain the irony? Nobody owes me any favors here, but if you could please explain the irony, I would be most grateful. |
I apologize for making you feel mocked. I had assumed you did see the irony and were playing along.
cp is drawing a parallel to the argument about the word "marriage," saying that subtle implications of the meaning of a word might change without breaking its core meaning. Consider the absurdity of saying that the word "kitchen" means "the place where the June Cleavers of the world cook for their families" and that we would need a new word to describe the same action in the same place if a man does it. He's saying that arguing that "marriage" must mean a bond between a man and a woman is equally absurd.
The significant aspect of the word "kitchen" (as distinguished from other rooms) is the activity it facilitates (i.e. preparing food), not the gender of the person who does it. Similarly, the significant aspect of "marriage" is the vow two people make to maintain a bond (you know, the "I do's"), not the genders of the people who are making the vow.
At least, that's what I saw in his analogy. I have to say that I agree with it. |
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extropalopakettle
No offense, but....
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:14 am Post subject: 11 |
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| Zag wrote: |
| extropalopakettle wrote: |
| Zag wrote: |
| Can I give extro a new title of "Irony-challenged"? |
Perhaps I am. And perhaps rather than mock me for it, you could explain the irony? Nobody owes me any favors here, but if you could please explain the irony, I would be most grateful. |
I apologize for making you feel mocked. I had assumed you did see the irony and were playing along.
cp is drawing a parallel to the argument about the word "marriage," saying that subtle implications of the meaning of a word might change without breaking its core meaning. Consider the absurdity of saying that the word "kitchen" means "the place where the June Cleavers of the world cook for their families" and that we would need a new word to describe the same action in the same place if a man does it. He's saying that arguing that "marriage" must mean a bond between a man and a woman is equally absurd.
The significant aspect of the word "kitchen" (as distinguished from other rooms) is the activity it facilitates (i.e. preparing food), not the gender of the person who does it. Similarly, the significant aspect of "marriage" is the vow two people make to maintain a bond (you know, the "I do's"), not the genders of the people who are making the vow.
At least, that's what I saw in his analogy. I have to say that I agree with it. |
Oh, yeah, I got all that. Except there seem to be a lot of people who care about what "marriage" means, and I haven't noticed that for "kitchen". |
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Death Mage
Raving Lunatic
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:25 am Post subject: 12 |
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How do we define a room? Does it have to be walled off from other rooms? If so, I don't have a kitchen. I have a kitchen-like AREA, but it is open on 2 of its four sides. If that area alone is enough to be a "kitchen" then does any area in which you can cook be a kitchen? Does a BBQ grill on a patio make that corner a "kitchen"? Do all kitchens have to be, by definition, indoors? What about commercial out-door "kitchen" areas for specialty restaurants etc.? If a man is living alone in a house, or a house is abandoned, can it truly be said to have a "kitchen"?
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Antrax
ESL Student
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:09 am Post subject: 13 |
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CP, would you agree that you're actually Jewish? It's all the same monotheistic hoo-ha anyway, and Judaism has been around longer.
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After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick! |
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casinopete
Emergency Backup Antrax
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:32 am Post subject: 14 |
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| Death Mage wrote: |
| How do we define a room? Does it have to be walled off from other rooms? If so, I don't have a kitchen. I have a kitchen-like AREA, but it is open on 2 of its four sides. |
This is a great point. My "kitchen" doesn't have four walls, either. We need lots of new words. There's <Two-Walls Male Kitchen>, <Two-Walls Female Kitchen>, <Three-Walls Male Kitchen>, <Three-Walls Female Kitchen>, <Three-Walls Males Kitchen with one side that opens into a Dining Room>, <Three-Walls Female Kitchen with one side that opens into a Dining Room> . . .
Actually, now that I think about it, that last one might be the standard. That's the layout for my "kitchen", and my parents' "kitchen" and my in-laws' "kitchen", too. Maybe that's the correct definition for "kitchen", and we instead need a word for <Four-Walls Female Kitchen>? This is a much thornier problem than I'd initially surmised.
_________________
If you have some ice cream, I will give it to you.
If you have no ice cream, I will take it away from you. |
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casinopete
Emergency Backup Antrax
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:46 am Post subject: 15 |
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| Antrax wrote: |
| CP, would you agree that you're actually Jewish? |
Thank you for bringing this up! Jewishness is another important distinction. Every word we come up with for male-use and female-use things-like-kitchens has to have a corresponding word for a corresponding kosher male-use and female-use thing-like-a-kitchen.
_________________
If you have some ice cream, I will give it to you.
If you have no ice cream, I will take it away from you. |
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bgg1996
BeeGees are awesome!
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:12 am Post subject: 16 |
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<four-walls co-ed kitchen>
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Antrax
ESL Student
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:19 am Post subject: 17 |
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| casinopete wrote: |
| Antrax wrote: |
| CP, would you agree that you're actually Jewish? |
Thank you for bringing this up! Jewishness is another important distinction. Every word we come up with for male-use and female-use things-like-kitchens has to have a corresponding word for a corresponding kosher male-use and female-use thing-like-a-kitchen. |
Was that a "yes"?
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After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick! |
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Gomez
candid chimera
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:04 am Post subject: 18 |
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Excellent OP casinopete! I strongly approve  |
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Mackay
Saviour of Spiders
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:21 am Post subject: 19 |
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| extropalopakettle wrote: |
| Perhaps I am. And perhaps rather than mock me for it, you could explain the irony? Nobody owes me any favors here, but if you could please explain the irony, I would be most grateful. |
This is a bit of a tangent from the "kitchen" discussion, but I can see how a traditional man might not understand.
You take the clothes and put them on the board, then you use the irony to make them flat. |
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Pablo
Never Draws a Blank
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:42 am Post subject: 20 |
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I think that a kitchen..........
Hey, wait...... I was looking for the "complete waste of time thread".
Never mind. I just got confused there for a minute.
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All religions are the same - Guilt....just with different holidays. |
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Dread Pirate Westley
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:11 pm Post subject: 21 |
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When it's a jar?
| Courk wrote: |
| Is it still a kitchen if the woman isn't barefooted? |
See, I was just wondering how she was supposed to get pregnant if the man isn't allowed in the kitchen.  |
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:24 pm Post subject: 22 |
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| I think we all agree that the word kitchen does not carry any gender implications. However, I hope we can equally agree that the sentence, "Make me a sandwich" always does. |
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Thok*
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:42 pm Post subject: 23 |
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| Zag wrote: |
| I think we all agree that the word kitchen does not carry any gender implications. However, I hope we can equally agree that the sentence, "Make me a sandwich" always does. |
Sudo "Make me a sandwich", Zag. |
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Dread Pirate Westley
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:47 pm Post subject: 24 |
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| *Poof* You are a sandwich. |
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LordKinbote
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:27 pm Post subject: 25 |
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| Dread Pirate Westley wrote: |
| *Poof* You are a sandwich. |
Who you calling poof? |
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aly007
Icarian Member
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:12 am Post subject: 26 |
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When the Kitchen word start then women image show in every mine. That's why every one tell the women in the kitchen.
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Quailman
His Postmajesty
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:54 pm Post subject: 27 |
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| aly007 wrote: |
When the Kitchen word start then women image show in every mine. That's why every one tell the women in the kitchen.
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Hey, that is really insightful and well-put. I am going to immediately click on the links in your quasi-signature! |
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jesternl
Yankee Doodle Dutchie
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:13 pm Post subject: 28 |
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| Thok* wrote: |
| Zag wrote: |
| I think we all agree that the word kitchen does not carry any gender implications. However, I hope we can equally agree that the sentence, "Make me a sandwich" always does. |
Sudo "Make me a sandwich", Zag. |
Thank you XKCD  |
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Scurra
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:04 pm Post subject: 29 |
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If I google image search the word "Kitchen", only two of the first major batch of images I get show any people at all.
Can you guess what gender both of those people are?
_________________
still Quiz Olympiad champion. Must get a life.
New definitions: COFFEE - someone who is coughed upon
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:09 pm Post subject: 30 |
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| I believe, Scurra, that there is a tiny risk that you might be working a teeny bit too hard to counter something that just might have been meant as a joke. |
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Pablo
Never Draws a Blank
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:23 pm Post subject: 31 |
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He's using the old "kitchen counter".
_________________
All religions are the same - Guilt....just with different holidays.
Last edited by Pablo on Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Scurra
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:24 pm Post subject: 32 |
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Can I say "ditto"?
(Yes, I meant my post as a joke too. I really loved the idea that prompted this thread, and I look forward to using it as a counter-argument myself sometime in the future.)
_________________
still Quiz Olympiad champion. Must get a life.
New definitions: COFFEE - someone who is coughed upon
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Poisonium
annoyed by the old
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:20 pm Post subject: 33 |
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| Thok* wrote: |
| Zag wrote: |
| I think we all agree that the word kitchen does not carry any gender implications. However, I hope we can equally agree that the sentence, "Make me a sandwich" always does. |
Sudo "Make me a sandwich", Zag. |
Everytime this comes up, one has to wonder whether it's an actual Unix user, or just a dedicated XKCD reader 
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I tried apt-get install lifebut it only returned E: Couldn't find package life |
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