Inventors 2 has ended! Congratulations, Team Ganymede!

[Scurra]

[MatthewV]

Recipient: lexprod
Name: Kaplooie!!! (if you aren't on my side)
Description: Allows the user to publicly to nuke all the inventions that a player has. If the target is on the same team as the user, then nothing will happen. Kaplooie!!

[bgg1996]

Recipient: Amb, lexprod, MatthewV, ralphmerridew, Scurra.
Name: Initinalizer
Description: Reveals (publicly) the first letter of the target player's team name if the target player is on the same team as you. Reveals (publicly) the last letter of the target player's team name if the target player is not on the same team as you. It is not revealed whether or not the target player is on the same team as you.
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The one member below 18

[bgg1996]

Use anti-MattV gun on MattV.
Use get a clue on jesus_saves.
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[mathgrant]

3iff gives Scurra a Globe of Victory, and discards some crap.

Scurra gives this slightly less complicated invention:
* Scurra's Inception Deception (115): The target of this invention is transported to a Dreamworld. All players in the Dreamworld retain their previous invention queues, but they are collectively considered part of a separate game of Inventors running parallel to the Realworld game. Players return to the Real World if a) They are part of a successful victory claim, b) They are part of a successful defeat claim, or c) Any player or mod rolls a 1 with dice tags.

Another invention is rephrased:
* Scurra's You've got the instructions upside down (116): The next invention used by the target will swap the roles of "user" and "target" in its instructions. If the target's next used invention has an effect on its user, then the effect must be transferred to another player chosen by the target.

Scurra only gets to give this invention to ralphmerridew, as he is promptly chased by Dobermans.

The Dobermans lose interest before bgg1996 hands out his invention:

MatthewV must declare victory.

jesus_saves must give a clue.
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[ralphmerridew]

Discard the Can-o-death.
Use the Get-A-Clue on Scurra.
Keep the other two for now.

[mathgrant]

ralphmerridew does those things.
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[jesus_saves]

clue: satellite

Sorry I ve been awol. We are trying to buy a house and (who knew!) it's a crazy process. Plus having just moved and commuting and general life.

Not sure that i ll participate much more, but at least you have a clue.

[bgg1996]

Let me guess... A satellite of Jupiter. A natural satellite of Jupiter.
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[mathgrant]

jesus_saves has given a clue, and has a normal status again.
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[ralphmerridew]

This game's slowed down.
Amb, I'd like a tool that lets me claim defeat.

[MatthewV]

I was hoping that I would get a little more information before having to claim victory.

Victory for Team Europa with MatthewV, bgg1996, and jesus_saves.

[mathgrant]

MatthewV's victory attempt is incorrect.
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[bgg1996]

Awwww.
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[Amb]

I made team Europa up. I could easily have said Callisto or Sycorax. I find it very interesting that people have followed me on this one...

[Amb]

Invention: Defeaterrmation
Target: ralphm
Use: Allows the user to declare defeat on a team, but randomly changes the user to another team - running the risk they might defeat themselves.

[3iff]

Use ralphmerridew's Hyper-Enthusiasm

Declare victory, Team Io is 3iff and Scurra.

[MatthewV]

Can I have an invention that declares defeat too, please?

[lexprod]

* ralphmerridew's Hyper-Enthusiasm (105): * User must declare victory. All other inventions named Hyper-Enthusiasm items are destroyed.
I believe this has been destroyed now. If not, DISCARD

* Scurra's Inception Deception (115): The target of this invention is transported to a Dreamworld. All players in the Dreamworld retain their previous invention queues, but they are collectively considered part of a separate game of Inventors running parallel to the Realworld game. Players return to the Real World if a) They are part of a successful victory claim, b) They are part of a successful defeat claim, or c) Any player or mod rolls a 1 with dice tags.
DISCARD

* MatthewV's Kaplooie!!! (if you aren't on my side) (122): Allows the user to publicly to nuke all the inventions that a player has. If the target is on the same team as the user, then nothing will happen.
I Kaplooie 3iff

* bgg1996's Initinalizer (123): Reveals (publicly) the first letter of the target player's team name if the target player is on the same team as you. Reveals (publicly) the last letter of the target player's team name if the target player is not on the same team as you. It is not revealed whether or not the target player is on the same team as you.
I Initialize ralphmerridew
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I'll have a P please...

[groza528]

ralphmerridew gets Amb’s Defeaterrmation (136): Allows the user to declare defeat on a team. After the defeat attempt is adjudicated, the user is placed in a random existing team (which may be their current team, the team just defeated, or any team in existence).

3iff uses the Hyper-Enthusiasm. His victory attempt is INCORRECT.
Note: the ruling between mathgrant and myself is that declaring victory does not *force* you to name your team, as any victory declarer could deliberately name a different team. Thus 3iff is not afflicted by the Curse of the Unspeakable for this act.

lexprod kaplooie's 3iff. 3iff's queue is now empty.

lexprod initinalizes ralphmerridew and receives the result O.

[ralphmerridew]

Discard Scurra's You've got the instructins upside-down
Use the initinalizer on jesus_saves.

[mathgrant]

ralphmerridew's initializer result is E.
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[ralphmerridew]

Use the Defeaterrmation to defeat team Io (Amb, 3iff, Scurra, rm).

[mathgrant]

ralphmerridew's defeat attempt is successful, removing four players from the game. ralphmerridew then changes to a random team, but because he's already defeated himself, it doesn't matter.
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[MatthewV]

Well then I will declare victory for Team Ganymede (all the remaining players)

[mathgrant]

And with that, Team Ganymede wins the game! Congratulations, Team Ganymede! Let the post-game discussion begin!
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[MatthewV]

Groza shouldn't have made the comment that we now had even teams when the game started. It might have been better with 3-3-2.

Thank you for moderating this game.

[groza528]

I actually forgot I said that... We actually considered uneven teams, too.

[Scurra]

On the whole the game was as chaotic as last time, which is fine. However, I still had some issues, which may not be shared by others.

Firstly, the discard mechanism seems a bit "easy". I understand why it is there, but there is no real tension in discarding something. If a player were only allowed to discard, say, one invention per game then they might have to consider it more carefully. And it is possible that the game needs a rule that no invention may target the user themselves.

Secondly, the method for declaring victory seems slightly skewed too. The principle that you need an invention is good, but the methods of doing so were bad. It's true that as the game progressed people started making inventions that used the game format interestingly and I think the defeat claim was a bit of an unfortunate fluke, but I suspect that the game would always devolve to creating victory/defeat devices. Again, it is possible that the game needs an inbuilt victory claim limit - and that the inventions should be about extracting information or changing player situations, not about claiming victory as such. Although the only other ideas I have had for dealing with guessing generally end up leading to player elimination, which is bad. Even restricting people to having to wait for another guess does not seem sufficient.

It's still a great idea for a game, and there were some fun inventions, but I don't think it lived up to its full potential.
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[MatthewV]

In some ways, I am against modifications to inventions with the exception of things that would break the game or make the game not fun for someone. The balance of a powerful invention is that it has to be given to someone else.
And with active players, such things could easily be stolen or something.

For example, I think an invention that allowed someone to secretly switch the teams of two people (they would not be informed of their new teams) would still be fair. Also, I think the game could have started with nobody even know what team they were on. This would make the information search longer and allow for greater player interactions.

[mathgrant]

I encourage you to moderate your own game of Inventors and try those ideas out. I'll play. Just be warned: judgment calls are frequent and not easy!
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[MatthewV]

I know-- it is as bad or worse than a rules game!

[MNOWAX]

Any possibility of this going again? I'm sad I missed this one.
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