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 Mystery Hunt 2012 Recast: COMPLETE!!! Goto page 1234567891011121314151617181920212223242526272829303132333435363738394041424344454647 Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 45, 46, 47  Next
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Lepton*
Guest

 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:29 am    Post subject: 41 I think this refers to the Lewis Carroll collection of math "knots", A Tangled Tale. Using GOOD for the seventh clue word, the seventh word before the second GOOD in Tangled Tale is RELENTED. Using OPPORTUNITY as the seventh clue word, I find ENUMERATE. ENUMERATE seems like a likely solution for a puzzle hunt puzzle. We could do a weak check on our result by checking words near 11502. Apply the solution (find the seventh word before the second usage in Tangled Tale) and look at the result. The two checks are: 1. the seventh clue word must appear in Tangled Tale at least twice. 2. the resulting word must not appear in Looking-Glass. If the word did appear in Looking-Glass, there would be no reason for the puzzle author to switch to a different book for this final step. ENUMERATE satisfies both of these criteria, and none of the other words from 11496 to 11506 does, so I think you've solved it, Suspence. CALL IN ENUMERATE
Scurra
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:33 pm    Post subject: 42 Yes, I looked at that clue (which someone else derived) and immediately said "well, A Tangled Tale is Lewis Carroll's collection of puzzles." If you haven't read it - or tried the puzzles - then you should. The commentaries he gives on wrong approaches and answers are very instructive at times. (There's a good on-line version here: http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/c/carroll/lewis/tangled/) I don't necessarily agree that the answer word shouldn't appear in Looking-Glass. But it's probably true that A Tangled Tale itself didn't contain enough words to make the puzzle challenging enough. Great work, novice and Suspence._________________ still Quiz Olympiad champion. Must get a life. New definitions: COFFEE - someone who is coughed upon
Suspence
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:03 pm    Post subject: 43 Thanks for finishing that out Lepton. Wouldn't have gotten that without Googling "TANGLED TALE", since I'd not heard of it. Nicely done. One down, 106 to go!_________________I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.
novice
No harm. Pun intended!

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:53 pm    Post subject: 44

 Zag wrote: Awesome sauce! I have to say, novice, now that you've been hanging around here for almost a month, your puzzle-solving skill and your puzzle-making contributions have been terrific. I assume you found us through Google, and it makes me glad that we opened our site up to Google, once again. Even though it is bringing us more spammers (sigh) it has also brought us some really great new members. I hope you and El plan to stay around for a long time.

Thanks for all the praise, guys. Lepton deserves the credit for this puzzle though, I just did some of the legwork after his epiphany.

About me: I live in Oslo, work with computers, and I like mental challenges. I generally have more forum time during weekdays - don't tell my boss.

I found the site by googling some of my brother's puzzles - I'm not sure how he found you though.
Lepton*
Guest

 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:12 pm    Post subject: 45 Hey, I'm over in Latvia! Maybe we should credit the ridiculously low levels of sunlight? The real work here, as Scurra indicated, was on the backs of Suspence and novice -- kudos, indeed.
LordKinbote
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:07 pm    Post subject: 46 ENUMERATE is correct. Puzzle 2: Blackout (by Scott Handelman [me!] and Alan Fetters) I'm going to start keeping meta answers...somewhere. Maybe my second post.
Suspence
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:15 pm    Post subject: 47 Does this work for the Nurikabe? EDIT: Nevermind, it doesn't_________________I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.Last edited by Suspence on Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
LordKinbote
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:17 pm    Post subject: 48 Okay, yeah, all collected answers will be found in the second post in this thread. I'll also put the most current puzzle there so people don't have to look for it. Commentary on 1207 1370: Scurra says he doesn't necessarily agree that the answer shouldn't be found in the book. Unfortunately, the word ENUMERATE does not appear in "Through the Looking Glass"...the original answer the puzzle was assigned did, but we felt that the puzzle was inappropriate in that round, and this answer turned out more thematic anyway. Luckily, the work required with "A Tangled Tale" was much simpler than the work done with enumerating "Looking Glass" so it didn't have the "We have to do this all *again*?" factor to it.
Suspence
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:08 pm    Post subject: 49 I'm sure this is wrong too, but I can never spot my own mistakes in these: _________________I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.Last edited by Suspence on Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:19 pm; edited 2 times in total
novice
No harm. Pun intended!

 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: 50 Lower left 9 is only 8.
Suspence
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:19 pm    Post subject: 51 See, I told you. Fixed above. At least that was a simple fix. For Thermometers, I'm assuming the lines with no indicators mean that the information is withheld, not that there are 0 filled sections in those lines. I'm making slow progress on it, I've never seem this puzzle type before._________________I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.
Lepton*
Guest

 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject: 52 That assumption is forced on us by the column with 10 and the two numberless rows. I'm doing terribly, but will plug away. The answers look like Braille, but are not: Suspence's solution provides either L (three vertical dots) or no-character, and either no-character or B (upper two vertical dots), but not both.
ralphmerridew
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:50 pm    Post subject: 53 Susp's grid isn't unique. For example, move R4C5 to R2C6.
novice
No harm. Pun intended!

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject: 54

 ralphmerridew wrote: Susp's grid isn't unique. For example, move R4C5 to R2C6.

But that 3x2 rectangle isn't highlighted so is probably not part of the next step in the puzzle.
Suspence
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:20 pm    Post subject: 55 Wouldn't this work too, changing the highlighted portion? If so, there must be a way to deduce the needed solution, perhaps only once some of the others are solved. _________________I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.
Lepton
1:41+ Arse Scratcher

 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:22 pm    Post subject: 56 This certainly isn't unique, but it seems to work.
Lepton
1:41+ Arse Scratcher

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:41 pm    Post subject: 57

 Quote: It wouldn’t be the Mystery Hunt if you didn’t have to get a feel for some ridiculous logical constraints…

With 2x3 grids, you have to think of Braille, but -- unless my solution contains flaws (which it might) -- there is no uniqueness, even if we require that the boxes give valid Braille characters. Some minor modifications near the 4 and 3 in the bottom right corner of my solution could turn that nearby grey box from a "W" into a "T". I'm brought back to the flavortext, because these puzzle forms don't seem to involve "ridiculous logical constraints". Hmm.
novice
No harm. Pun intended!

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:51 pm    Post subject: 58

 Suspence wrote: Wouldn't this work too, changing the highlighted portion? If so, there must be a way to deduce the needed solution, perhaps only once some of the others are solved.

If you define the top left corner as your origo, you have a 2x2 square with no land tile.
Suspence
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:00 pm    Post subject: 59 Yeah, somehow I went back to a version where I had that issue in the top left corner. I resolved it in one of the above ones, and I think my solution directly above could work if you swap out one upper left for another. I should stop trying nurikabes._________________I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.
Zag
Tired of his old title

 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:20 pm    Post subject: 60 I know that in an MIT hunt in the past, they had one set of normal-looking puzzles, including a Sudoku, that did not have unique solutions. The trick was to color in the part that you could lock down, and leave white the parts that could have more than one value. The colored in squares formed letters. It was brilliant, diabolical, and would have made my brain explode if I had actually been in the competition.
Elethiomel
Daedalian Member

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:44 pm    Post subject: 61

 novice wrote: I found the site by googling some of my brother's puzzles - I'm not sure how he found you though.

IIRC, I originally came across this site when I was searching for articles on Mafia strategy. I can't recall which exact search terms caused it to rank so highly, though.
Scurra
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:46 pm    Post subject: 62 I had managed to wipe that one from my mind. I'm not great at these sort of puzzles in the first place, so running into one where the puzzles had multiple solutions was horrible. (IIRC the trick was that the number of alternate solutions gave a number = letter code. And I seem to recall that one of them had something like 20 variants! But there may well have been a version where you coloured spaces in to make letters as well.) For this one, given all the strong hints - the 2x3 grids, the title - then it seems pretty clear that deriving braille letters must be part of the solution. And therefore the highlighted grids (at the very least) must contain braille letters somehow - which would seem to provide the extra constraint sought. But I am no good at solving these anyway, so I can't contribute any more._________________ still Quiz Olympiad champion. Must get a life. New definitions: COFFEE - someone who is coughed upon
LordKinbote
Daedalian Member

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:51 pm    Post subject: 63

 Scurra wrote: I had managed to wipe that one from my mind. I'm not great at these sort of puzzles in the first place, so running into one where the puzzles had multiple solutions was horrible. (IIRC the trick was that the number of alternate solutions gave a number = letter code. And I seem to recall that one of them had something like 20 variants! But there may well have been a version where you coloured spaces in to make letters as well.

For the record, that was the very puzzle that made me go "Okay, I need to do the Mystery Hunt every year."

The subpuzzles were well designed so that finding the number of solutions was not a matter of actually finding all the solutions, it required getting as far as you could go and then using simple combinatorics (this section could go here or here, this section could go here, here, and here, so 2x3 = 6, for example).
Suspence
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:27 am    Post subject: 64 In the nurikabe, the only possible configuration for the upper box, assuming we are looking for Braille, is for the letter E. If this is a valid solution - and it's probably not, given my track record - it yields EVV. _________________I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.
Scurra
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:03 am    Post subject: 65 It's not valid - there's a 2x2 block of "sea" just below the 1 in one of the highlighted grids. Not that I can find an easy way to resolve that. I think that it might be technically feasible for it to be a U as well, but I haven't actually tried to find out. The E certainly seems more reasonable to experiment with first._________________ still Quiz Olympiad champion. Must get a life. New definitions: COFFEE - someone who is coughed upon
Lepton*
Guest

 Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:38 am    Post subject: 66 Here's a first stab at thermometers. As with the others, this solution does not feel unique. It struck me that we are using slightly different rules ("logical constraints") in each puzzle, and that the puzzles are all the same grid size. It doesn't seem like the four answers will be topologically the same, but what if the rules "bleed"? Specifically, the first two puzzles respectively prohibit "lakes" and "forts" of 2x2 white and colored squares. I think I could make the thermometer puzzle do that, and it does feel like a sufficient criterion to make the first two unique.
Suspence
Daedalian Member

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: 67

 Scurra wrote: It's not valid - there's a 2x2 block of "sea" just below the 1 in one of the highlighted grids. Not that I can find an easy way to resolve that.

Updated above. I wish there was a nurikabe program where I could build my own starting grid, input my solution, and have the program check validity.
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.
Suspence
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:30 pm    Post subject: 68 If my solution above works, then my assumption that E is the only configuration for the upper box is wrong. I think a K or a U might be able to be made there, as well._________________I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.
Scurra
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:56 am    Post subject: 69 That revised solution seems to work. Which suggests that your conclusion may also be valid. In which case we are overlooking something more obvious, but I'm not sure what it is. (I honestly have no idea - I didn't do more than glance at this puzzle originally.) I can't really comment on the Thermometers as I have no idea what's going on there..._________________ still Quiz Olympiad champion. Must get a life. New definitions: COFFEE - someone who is coughed upon
Suspence
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:56 am    Post subject: 70 The other thought I had momentarily was that the darkened areas would have to be the same, either within puzzles, between puzzles or both. I don't think it's right, because I don't see how that would lead us anywhere as a next step. I think I'm at an impasse for the moment. Has anyone tried the Tapa or the Pentomino Minesweeper yet?_________________I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.
Vagrant
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:50 am    Post subject: 71 I've never seen one of those thermometer puzzles let alone solved one, but just looking at it I'd have thought the bulb of every thermometer should be red like a real thermometer.  Never mind. I found some and apparently not. [/edit]
LordKinbote
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:12 am    Post subject: 72 I haven't decided what my hint policy is yet. Obviously, we don't want to languish forever. What do you think?
Lepton*
Guest

 Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:27 am    Post subject: 73 I have no idea how we'll get through a hundred of these puzzles. We're a half-dozen puzzlers trying to find something to occupy our minds during spare minutes. Hints if we're clearly missing something, I guess? For the record, you guys can see my solutions for Tapa and Thermometers, right? I think they're both valid, although probably not unique.
Suspence
Daedalian Member

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:10 pm    Post subject: 74

 Lepton* wrote: I have no idea how we'll get through a hundred of these puzzles. We're a half-dozen puzzlers trying to find something to occupy our minds during spare minutes. Hints if we're clearly missing something, I guess?

It took us 3 months to get through approx 50 puzzles in the MPH, and these are clearly harder. I think we can get through it with persistence and time.

That said, in the sake of keeping it fun, I agree that we might need some hints, or at least some verification of ideas that keep us moving. For example, should we continue thinking about Braille on this one?
 Quote: For the record, you guys can see my solutions for Tapa and Thermometers, right? I think they're both valid, although probably not unique.

Yes, I can see them. Sorry I missed your solution to the Tapa.
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.
LordKinbote
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:43 pm    Post subject: 75 Braille is the right way to go. All grids are unique. I personally think Round One gets easier after this one.
Scurra
Daedalian Member

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:56 pm    Post subject: 76

 LordKinbote wrote: I personally think Round One gets easier after this one.
I agree. Most of the other puzzles in this round are about the "aha" rather than long-winded persistence I think (although there's certainly plenty of tedious research. )
_________________
still Quiz Olympiad champion. Must get a life.
New definitions: COFFEE - someone who is coughed upon
Suspence
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:58 pm    Post subject: 77 As I suggested above, here are two (hopefully) valid solutions with different Braille in the upper box. We must still be missing the additional constraint that makes the correct solution unique. I seem to keep coming back to trying to make the same solution work for each puzzle. I haven't really tried anything, but perhaps only the highlighted squares can differ from one puzzle to the next?_________________I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.
Zag
Tired of his old title

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: 78

 Scurra wrote: Most of the other puzzles in this round are about the "aha" rather than long-winded persistence I think (although there's certainly plenty of tedious research. )

I'm glad to hear it. To me, the best puzzles are easily and quickly solved once you have the "aha." We might even have it here (that the extra constraint is that the highlighted rectangles have to form legitimate Braille letters) or maybe not, but there's a ton of work even showing that this is (or isn't) the "aha." I'm just not motivated enough to solve this sort of puzzle.

Looking forward to the next one.
LordKinbote
Daedalian Member

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:05 pm    Post subject: 79

Scurra wrote:
 LordKinbote wrote: I personally think Round One gets easier after this one.
I agree. Most of the other puzzles in this round are about the "aha" rather than long-winded persistence I think (although there's certainly plenty of tedious research. )

I'd argue this puzzle is about the aha too, although there's certainly a lot more work to be done after it's had.
Suspence
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:19 pm    Post subject: 80 I think that is what I initially disliked about the first puzzle. The puzzle actually seemed harder after the "aha". The decoding process seemed so daunting/tedious I didn't even want to bother. Ultimately, I was able to see challenge of decoding as fun, but the puzzle seemed much more a test of my willpower than my acuity._________________I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.
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