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Scurra
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:44 pm Post subject: 81 |
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I agree with Suspence to an extent about the first one. The work after the aha did seem very tedious indeed. At least with Blackout there are still logic puzzles to solve (which may or may not be tedious depending upon how you like them.) Whereas sending someone off into a corner with a deconstructed text and asking them to pore over coded instructions doesn't strike me as fun. But, again, others will differ. That's why Puzzle Hunts work so much better with teams who have different tolerance levels to different things.
I think it's interesting to contrast that first one with what might generically be called the "Duck" puzzles - which also involve following hyper complicated instructions, but there is usually an element of absurdity involved in them which raises it above tedious rule following. _________________
still Quiz Olympiad champion. Must get a life.
New definitions: COFFEE - someone who is coughed upon
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:43 pm Post subject: 82 |
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So, where are we on the current puzzle? Braille has been confirmed, but if my previous solutions are both valid, then we know there must be another constraint.
Copied below to get on the page, along with Lepton's solutions to Thermometers and Tapas.
My Nurikabe Solutions - Braille EVV or KVV
Lepton's Thermometers Solution - Braille SAE
Lepton's Tapa Solution - Braille F--W
 _________________ I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature. |
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LordKinbote
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:32 pm Post subject: 83 |
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| Suspence wrote: |
| So, where are we on the current puzzle? Braille has been confirmed, but if my previous solutions are both valid, then we know there must be another constraint. |
Or (a big hint)...your constraint is not being applied strongly enough. |
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Return of the Quickies
Solved That One!
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:38 pm Post subject: 84 |
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Hmm...that brings back to mind something I thought I mentioned as a possibility before, but apparently did not - that every 2x3 square must be a valid Braille letter.
Don't have time to experiment with that now, but maybe later today unless others chase it down first. _________________ Password is all one word, all lowercase, no spaces, unless otherwise indicated. |
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novice
No harm. Pun intended!
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:41 pm Post subject: 85 |
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| With rotq helping, this should be a cinch! |
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Scurra
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:47 pm Post subject: 86 |
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| Return of the Quickies wrote: |
| Hmm...that brings back to mind something I thought I mentioned as a possibility before, but apparently did not - that every 2x3 square must be a valid Braille letter. |
I've been struggling with the minesweeper and I think I have concluded that this must be the case, because otherwise it doesn't seem possible to get started. Then again I have already admitted I'm rubbish at these sort of puzzles.  _________________
still Quiz Olympiad champion. Must get a life.
New definitions: COFFEE - someone who is coughed upon
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LordKinbote
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:01 pm Post subject: 87 |
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| Scurra wrote: |
| Return of the Quickies wrote: |
| Hmm...that brings back to mind something I thought I mentioned as a possibility before, but apparently did not - that every 2x3 square must be a valid Braille letter. |
I've been struggling with the minesweeper and I think I have concluded that this must be the case, because otherwise it doesn't seem possible to get started. Then again I have already admitted I'm rubbish at these sort of puzzles.  |
Trust me, you'll struggle with the pentomino minesweeper no matter what. It's a bitch. Palmer Mebane is the World Puzzle Champion, and he thought one of the steps in the middle (though admittedly perfectly logical and not requiring guessing) was mean. The other three are easier. |
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Vagrant
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:14 pm Post subject: 88 |
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Suspence, in your post 82, you use filled in squares as braille dots for tapa and thermometers but you use unfilled squares in nurikabe. I haven't tried to solve any of them but am wondering if it would make a difference to the nurikabe if you used the filled squares as the dots.
Last edited by Vagrant on Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:46 pm Post subject: 89 |
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| Vagrant wrote: |
| Suspence, in your post 82, you make braille letters out of filled in squares for tapa and thermometers but you make them out of unfilled squares in nurikabe. |
I didn't think I did. When I look back at them, it looks like I'm using filled squares in both (orange in my solutions, red in Lepton's) to figure out the Braille.
I thought I used filled squares in all of them, but I'm beginning to wonder about which to use.
I'm having trouble following the rules of nurikabe with Braille characters in the upper left areas when I view the islands as the dots. Perhaps I need to look at it the other way and consider the C as dots. _________________ I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.
Last edited by Suspence on Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:49 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Vagrant
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:48 pm Post subject: 90 |
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| In nurikabe the 'stream' is the bit you fill in when you solve it. |
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Vagrant
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:51 pm Post subject: 91 |
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| On reflection that sounded condescending. Sorry. I'm just saying that it makes sense to me to consistently make the dots out of the bits you 'fill in' as you solve the puzzles. |
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:02 pm Post subject: 92 |
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No need for an apology, I took it with a grain of salt. And, you may be right.
Maybe it's just that we do nurikabe's differently (and quite likely that I do them wrong). I tend to fill in the islands and hope the stream works, then adjust my islands to accomodate the stream. This could explain why I always end up with a 2x2 somewhere. _________________ I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature. |
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Vagrant
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:08 pm Post subject: 93 |
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| Suspence wrote: |
| I tend to fill in the islands and hope the stream works |
That's one way to make a nurikabe more challenging.  |
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:11 pm Post subject: 94 |
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One thing I did notice is that 8 out of 14 known islands are in the left hand column (9 if you count the one to the right of the 4 that is automatic), so 60%.
In Braille, 60% of the dots appear in the left hand column, as the left hand column must always have a dot.
Not sure that means anything, but it's part of why I started where I did, in addition to my apparently non-traditional nurikabe methodology. _________________ I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature. |
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LordKinbote
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:58 pm Post subject: 95 |
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| Suspence wrote: |
No need for an apology, I took it with a grain of salt. And, you may be right.
Maybe it's just that we do nurikabe's differently (and quite likely that I do them wrong). I tend to fill in the islands and hope the stream works, then adjust my islands to accomodate the stream. This could explain why I always end up with a 2x2 somewhere. |
I cannot tell someone that their method is wrong, but I'd say your method is certainly more finnicky than what I think most would agree is the intended solving path. A purely logical path doesn't require "correcting," it just requires placing islands and streams only when one knows that they are correct (and traveling down a path that one is unsure of where it will lead only as a last resort).
I actually have made some Nurikabe tutorial videos in the past. They're great as a cure for insomnia:
Nurikabe Rules
Basic Nurikabe 1
Basic Nurikabe 2
Basic Nurikabe 3
Basic Nurikabe 4
Intermediate Nurikabe 1
Intermediate Nurikabe 2
Intermediate Nurikabe 3
Intermediate Nurikabe 4 |
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:48 pm Post subject: 96 |
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| LordKinbote wrote: |
| A purely logical path doesn't require "correcting," it just requires placing islands and streams only when one knows that they are correct (and traveling down a path that one is unsure of where it will lead only as a last resort). |
I guess for the most part I do that, I just didn't explain myself well. But if you asked me whether I was "filling in" with islands or streams, I'd say islands. Since I'm counting the islands, and not counting the streams, it typically feels like a game where you are putting an island in the right spot, or putting a stream in a place were it is clear an island is not. _________________ I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature. |
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LordKinbote
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:22 am Post subject: 97 |
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| Suspence wrote: |
| LordKinbote wrote: |
| A purely logical path doesn't require "correcting," it just requires placing islands and streams only when one knows that they are correct (and traveling down a path that one is unsure of where it will lead only as a last resort). |
I guess for the most part I do that, I just didn't explain myself well. But if you asked me whether I was "filling in" with islands or streams, I'd say islands. Since I'm counting the islands, and not counting the streams, it typically feels like a game where you are putting an island in the right spot, or putting a stream in a place were it is clear an island is not. |
Ah. Yeah, I don't really think of it like I'm filling in one or the other. I feel like I'm constantly filling in both. They're yin and yang. |
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Vagrant
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:47 am Post subject: 98 |
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| LordKinbote wrote: |
| I don't really think of it like I'm filling in one or the other. I feel like I'm constantly filling in both. They're yin and yang. |
That's true although I've never really thought about it like that.
I don't know how the other puzzles work but I do a lot of nurikabe online. In online solving (at the site I use) the 'islands' in the solution are the same colour as the blank grid and the 'stream' is a different colour to the blank grid so I think of the stream as being filled in. I do mark the known island areas as well so they could just as easily be considered filled in depending on your perspective.
Since Suspence has already shown that there isn't a unique solution for the braille grids using the islands as dots it would seem like the next logical step to use the streams and see what turns up. I've got some time to give it a whirl now that all the Aussies are out of the tennis. |
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:07 pm Post subject: 99 |
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| Vagrant wrote: |
| Since Suspence has already shown that there isn't a unique solution for the braille grids using the islands as dots it would seem like the next logical step to use the streams and see what turns up. I've got some time to give it a whirl now that all the Aussies are out of the tennis. |
Americans too.
I don't think that I've shown that there isn't a unique solution using the islands as Braille given our new constraint that every 2x3 cell must be a valid Braille character. I only showed that there were multiple Braille solutions if you were attempting to use the islands to make Braille only in the highlighted cells.
I'm working on the nurikabe when I have time, but I still haven't decided whether I'm using islands or streams as I've run into some tough spots with both. _________________ I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature. |
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:35 pm Post subject: 100 |
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I think I've decided that the streams must be the dots of the Braille by process of elimination.
If Braille were the islands:
Working on the top left corner, you would need to get an island to Column 1. The only option to do that is to build 2 squares left from the 3 in C3. This would give you a Braille "C", but an invalid nurikabe due to the 2x2 stream. So one of the bottom 2 cells needs to be filled in to make a valid nurikabe. The only option to get any islands into that area is to go straight up from the 2 in C2. That configuration:
is not a valid Braille character, though.
I think this is definitive enough to say that I need to concentrate on making Braille with streams.
I've started with a top row of VSCYA for the moment, but running into problems in the 2nd row of Braille with that configuration. I wonder if there is any chance that the Braille will need to spell out valid 5 letter words in each row. That would be cool. _________________ I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature. |
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Scurra
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:43 pm Post subject: 101 |
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I'd like to offer this possible solution for the Pentomino Minesweeper based on every space being a braille letter. I think it works, although it produces the letters Z I E which makes me think I've done something wrong...
 _________________
still Quiz Olympiad champion. Must get a life.
New definitions: COFFEE - someone who is coughed upon
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Vagrant
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:51 am Post subject: 102 |
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I think this works for the nurikabe if the stream represents the dots.
I think it's unique because the only alternative solution I could make work on the left side forces a non-braille tile at the middle top. |
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:23 pm Post subject: 103 |
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Vagrant's nurikabe gives SCH
Here's my Thermometer solution, which yields THE
 _________________ I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature. |
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Scurra
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:15 pm Post subject: 104 |
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SCH???ZIETHE
Hmmm. I always hate "parsing" puzzles - sometimes you have no idea if the random string you have extracted is correct because it makes no obvious sense even if bits of it might... _________________
still Quiz Olympiad champion. Must get a life.
New definitions: COFFEE - someone who is coughed upon
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Vagrant
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:06 pm Post subject: 105 |
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| Suspence, your thermometer solution only has 5 in the second 6 column (which could be fixed by extending the thermometer in the third row from the bottom). |
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:17 pm Post subject: 106 |
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Good catch. I had it right on the paper copy I had been working on, but I put it into Paint incorrectly.
Fixed above. _________________ I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature. |
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Vagrant
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:48 pm Post subject: 107 |
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I really enjoyed doing this too once I learned how to do it. I think the braille restriction made this significantly easier than it would normally be.
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Vagrant
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:59 pm Post subject: 108 |
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SCHLITZIETHE
I'd need Google for that to mean anything to me. |
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:04 pm Post subject: 109 |
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http://thehumanmarvels.com/?p=130
Call in PINHEAD _________________ I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature. |
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LordKinbote
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:07 pm Post subject: 110 |
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| PINHEAD is correct! Phew! Good team effort. |
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LordKinbote
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:23 pm Post subject: 111 |
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| New puzzle: Fight Choreography, by Patrick Blindauer and Francis Heaney |
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:25 pm Post subject: 112 |
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So we can move ahead to the next one? I cheated and looked at it already. It starts with some cryptics, and I know that if I don't jump in and grab the easy ones, I won't get any. Here they are, with the solutions for the ones I worked out already, spoilered.
---- Superhero is one cutting mad baron? Yes
---- Agent Monroe, for one, throws a left
---- With a sword, thrusts halfway at a goddess
RED ---- Bloody at first, Robin eludes death
---- Joker’s weapons putting a kind of smear on top of some parents
---- Dynasty is overturned? Not really
LOSE --- Suffer defeat in Halo sequel
---- Battle Grant between the borders
BALE ---- Slaughter able Batman portrayer
---- Inspector is sad to cede beginning of onslaught |
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:34 pm Post subject: 113 |
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The pictures seem to tie out to 2 word phrases:
Love Shack
Slush Puppies
?
?
Rock Band
?
?
Lois Lane
Bunk Bed
Mouse Pad _________________ I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature. |
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Vagrant
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:22 am Post subject: 114 |
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| That's Lana Lang, not Lois Lane. |
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:07 am Post subject: 115 |
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| Picture 6 is the famous water tower just south of Boston. (I used to drive by it every day.) I don't know if there is a 2-word phrase, though, unless it's just "water tower." |
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Scurra
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:18 am Post subject: 116 |
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The most annoying thing about this one for me is that I guessed the last stage of this puzzle first, but dismissed it as being too ridiculous so never even suggested it to the rest of the team. Some considerable time later somebody else thought of it (although I confess that I was asleep at the time.)
Lesson: there is no such thing as a "too ridiculous" suggestion...  _________________
still Quiz Olympiad champion. Must get a life.
New definitions: COFFEE - someone who is coughed upon
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:35 am Post subject: 117 |
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| #3 is an Uruk Hai. I don't think that's Lurtz, though it does look a lot like him. |
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:31 am Post subject: 118 |
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CRYPTICS
---- Superhero is one cutting mad baron? Yes
---- Agent Monroe, for one, throws a left
---- With a sword, thrusts halfway at a goddess
RED ---- Bloody at first, Robin eludes death
---- Joker’s weapons putting a kind of smear on top of some parents
---- Dynasty is overturned? Not really
LOSE --- Suffer defeat in Halo sequel
---- Battle Grant between the borders
BALE ---- Slaughter able Batman portrayer
---- Inspector is sad to cede beginning of onslaught
IMAGES
Love Shack
Slush Puppies
Uruk Hai
Bar Kays
Rock Band
Water Tower
Lip Balm
Lana Lang
Bunk Bed
Mouse Pad _________________ I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature. |
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Vagrant
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:44 am Post subject: 119 |
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It may be nothing but I notice
RED -> BED
LOSE -> LOVE
BALE -> BALM |
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novice
No harm. Pun intended!
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:27 am Post subject: 120 |
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Joker’s weapons putting a kind of smear on top of some parents
PAPPIES (PAP+PIES)
Pappies->Puppies |
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