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Winter has begun... (Game over!)
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itisally
Master of Disguise



PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:57 pm    Post subject: 1601 Reply with quote

Cloudrunner,
I find it interesting that you still find the people who supported Durryn as suspicious. If I had been Mafia I would have known that Durryn was not mafia and been glad to support a town lynch (without getting too WIFOM about it). However, as town I know no better than any other townie and supported him. What is funny to me is that I wasn’t exactly wrong… He wasn’t town. I am curious how an investigative role may have reported on him. Perhaps Ohcapt just had a “not scum” or “innocent” read on him.

Roles that can prevent or avoid night kills:
Roleblocker
Doctor
Nurse
Jail keeper
Bodyguard
Bulletproof
Commuter

And these are just the ones I found on the Mafia Scum Wiki, I am sure Sentran was sneakier than that. I mostly wanted to list them so that Cloudrunners post wasn't so ambiguous and people might consider some other possibilities.
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cloudRunner
Daedalian Member



PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:18 am    Post subject: 1602 Reply with quote

Quote:
I find it interesting that you still find the people who supported Durryn as suspicious. If I had been Mafia I would have known that Durryn was not mafia and been glad to support a town lynch


That's the predictable way to play mafia. Smarter scum actually side with townies and even build a case in support of a townie so that they can initiate a bandwagon the following day in an "I told you so fashion" (basically my argument against Durryn re: Amb's lynch).
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itisally
Master of Disguise



PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:36 am    Post subject: 1603 Reply with quote

Well I guess it is nice that you think we are all smart. Enthusiastic Grin
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine



PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 3:54 am    Post subject: 1604 Reply with quote

Day 7, 7 alive, 4 to lynch
Deadline: Tuesday, 15 May
Current Vote Count
Code:

-------------------------
      Not voting (7): 3iff , Captin Aniima, cloudRunner, itisally, Jedo the Jedi, Silverfire, Undercover Monk

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3iff
very unbifflike



PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:20 am    Post subject: 1605 Reply with quote

cloudRunner: Did your enforced silence also block your ability to vote? Actually, thinking about it, I'm not sure anyone noticed your 'disappearance' until you mentioned it after the spyrl/MNO/Durryn deaths. (oops, itisally noticed it)

itisally: There have been quite a few non-standard roles and I would not be surprised if any protect roles had little quirks on them. You're right about the cards though...other than colour, there's not a hint about their powers.

Re the Captin Aniima info: I'm confident that she believes what she's written. Making it all up seems implausible (or it's a Zag-quality gambit). I think cloudRunner is trying to find other explanations for why there are no nightkills despite him being blocked every night...and there are roles that can do the job.
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training



PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:59 pm    Post subject: 1606 Reply with quote

Sorry I haven't been able to post yet. I've been busy and may still be. Here's a quick post before I head to work.

Undercover Monk wrote:
nah Im not buying it animala. We already have a confirmed neutral in Durryn and their hasnt been a second killing since he died so Im guessing he was the sk. which throws your whol theory out of whack. However with Zag's demise and ohcapts list being wrong that almost confirm you and by extension itis ally (though after what zag did we cant be sure.) If I remember right silver is the final mason and I would hope after the vicious blitz I put on Zag that I can be trusted by the majority of you.

That leaves cloud, 3iff and jedo. I actually find your evidence against cloud to be indicitive of his innocence. since the results were so varied. If another roleblocker comes forward to verify your story then you may have a point but I think we should focus on 3iff and jedo. particularly 3iff as he hasnt had any real pressure on him all game.

This post really stands out to me. First of all, there hasn't been a second killing since Aniima started blocking cloud which is way before Durryn was killed. Very bad logic there, and I'm not sure why you want to discount Aniima's.

Second, Zag was the obvious target the day after MNO died, so it would in fact be better for the scum to hard-bus their buddy in that instance. You trying to clear yourself because of your play strikes me as suspicious.

Third, why does someone not having pressure on them automatically mean we should pressure them? Durryn tried to make the same argument. It's true 3iff could be mafia hiding in the shadows, but it's equally possible he is a good townie who has done well at keeping the attention off himself and therefore avoided the mafia's killing gaze.

For somebody who is known for having sound logic, this post sure does drop off from your standard.

I'm still trying to think about the cloudRunner stuff. I'll post my thoughts on that when I have more time.
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Undercover Monk
Professor Chaos



PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:22 pm    Post subject: 1607 Reply with quote

Im glad we have some conversation goin again today yay. Now for some responses.

@jedo Crying or Very sad your post makes me a saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad panda. I hat when people attack my logic. so I double checked animala's info. and to my surprise I actually agree with you in part. having double checked we only had a second kill on night 2. Thats 1 out of 6. whats the odds of that happening even with two possible role blockers or a doc. this leads me to believe if there is an sk (durryn or not) that they had a shot limit.

as to the rest of your post jedo hard bussing is plausible but so is angry townie that zag fooled and being pissed that no one else would believe me. This is quite hypocritical coming from the guy who hammered. You are the one who should be accused of bussing not the wagon driver. and to your horrendous point about 3iff. YES putting suspicion on someone who has snuck through the game with very little attention is a valid play. Amb thought so and even encouraged it before we lynched him.


also I would say we can ignore ohcapts list he had Zag as def town remember
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Undercover Monk
Professor Chaos



PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject: 1608 Reply with quote

I think it may be time to do a mass role claim to see where we are at. 7 people 1 confirmed it could be useful
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3iff
very unbifflike



PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:00 pm    Post subject: 1609 Reply with quote

Well, nearly 24 hours and no posts at all. It seems your suggestion isn't very popular.

The other question is...is there anyone else out there?
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine



PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:39 pm    Post subject: 1610 Reply with quote

It's far too quiet in here. I'm tempted to move up the deadline. Also, it appears we have yet another AWOL player, but I will not remove any more from the game at this stage.
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Undercover Monk
Professor Chaos



PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:11 pm    Post subject: 1611 Reply with quote

hello come on at least check in. I will do the only thing I know how to at this point vote: 3iff If you dont defend yourself you will be lynched at deadline by one vote come on people.
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3iff
very unbifflike



PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:22 pm    Post subject: 1612 Reply with quote

UM: That really is cruel and heartless Dispirited picking on the only other person posting here.

You know what's coming don't you...

Vote: Undercover Monk

I agree though that it would be nice if some other players made an appearance...
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cloudRunner
Daedalian Member



PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: 1613 Reply with quote

3iff wrote:
cloudRunner: Did your enforced silence also block your ability to vote? Actually, thinking about it, I'm not sure anyone noticed your 'disappearance' until you mentioned it after the spyrl/MNO/Durryn deaths. (oops, itisally noticed it)


You also did too. 1529.

Vote: 3iff

Case on 3iff forthcoming.
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itisally
Master of Disguise



PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:26 pm    Post subject: 1614 Reply with quote

ok, I know that I am going mostly on gut here but, I think that Aniima's information, while not conclusive, is consistent.with her conclusions. I have also had a off feeling about cloudrunner the whole game that I couldn't put my finger on. I think that the silence may be faked or have no real relation to what he was doing. Or may even have been a way for him to activate an ability. But I am putting money on him being the SK explaining why him being blocked did prevent a kill consistently. I also think that his vague reference to other roles as a weak attempt to cast doubt.

vote: Cloudrunner
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Undercover Monk
Professor Chaos



PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:55 pm    Post subject: 1615 Reply with quote

sorry 3iff but it had to be done look what the result has brought
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training



PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:12 pm    Post subject: 1616 Reply with quote

itisally wrote:
ok, I know that I am going mostly on gut here but, I think that Aniima's information, while not conclusive, is consistent.with her conclusions. I have also had a off feeling about cloudrunner the whole game that I couldn't put my finger on. I think that the silence may be faked or have no real relation to what he was doing. Or may even have been a way for him to activate an ability. But I am putting money on him being the SK explaining why him being blocked did prevent a kill consistently. I also think that his vague reference to other roles as a weak attempt to cast doubt.

vote: Cloudrunner

I've been thinking about it, and I have to go with itisally on this one. The big thing that did it for me is that for two people (Amb and Zag, opposing alignments interestingly enough), cloudRunner was pretty starkly against their lynch then had a rapid and rabid turnaround. Combine that with Aniima's "results" (since we don't know exactly how conclusive they are) and his random silence for which nobody has spoken up, it seems like he has a good chance of being the SK.

vote cloudRunner

Undercover Monk wrote:
@jedo Crying or Very sad your post makes me a saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad panda. I hat when people attack my logic...as to the rest of your post jedo hard bussing is plausible but so is angry townie that zag fooled and being pissed that no one else would believe me. This is quite hypocritical coming from the guy who hammered. You are the one who should be accused of bussing not the wagon driver. and to your horrendous point about 3iff. YES putting suspicion on someone who has snuck through the game with very little attention is a valid play. Amb thought so and even encouraged it before we lynched him.

What do you mean "no one else would believe" you? It seems to me that ally and Aniima were pretty strongly with you. Also, hard busing is an excellent play because it's so obvious Zag was the next lynch target, and it would make the busing scum look more townie.

Why is the hammer vote from me more likely to be a bus than yours? That makes zero sense. Somebody has to be the hammer. Unless you would rather the day carry on into oblivion. Besides, it was obviously a mercy thing because NOBODY WAS TALKING. I was trying to promote discussion so we could be a little more prepared today. I had even asked Zag to claim so that maybe he would use up the scum's safeclaim (or one of them if they have any); and yet there was very little going on. So, what do you suggest should have happened differently?

I understand Amb is a formidable and well-seasoned mafia player, but he still didn't have any more information than the rest of us. Just because he suggested something like that doesn't make him right in it. I'm saying, at this point, I would rather somebody confirm 3iff's alignment through results instead of through pressure. Either suggestion is reasonable, and I don't think we have room to be making guesses. That's part of why I'm going with cloud right now: It seems likely he is a killing party, so it's the safest play.
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Captin Aniima
Daedalian Member



PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:08 am    Post subject: 1617 Reply with quote

No one has managed to convince me otherwise confirm vote: cloudRunner.

UM: notice how I spell his name right. Felicitous
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Undercover Monk
Professor Chaos



PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 4:50 am    Post subject: 1618 Reply with quote

Quote:


I understand Amb is a formidable and well-seasoned mafia player, but he still didn't have any more information than the rest of us. Just because he suggested something like that doesn't make him right in it. I'm saying, at this point, I would rather somebody confirm 3iff's alignment through results instead of through pressure. Either suggestion is reasonable, and I don't think we have room to be making guesses. That's part of why I'm going with cloud right now: It seems likely he is a killing party, so it's the safest play.


Im sure I will be responding to this later as I disagree with all most everything in it but what the heck here's hoping you guys know what your doing. rolls dice. Vote:cloudrunner I swear to God Jedo if you turn scum I will lynch you day 1 every game for a year Evil or Very Mad
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2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine



PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 5:16 pm    Post subject: 1619 Reply with quote

The town gathers with nervous anticipation of what is to come. They know that there are not many days left, and they need to see darker cards if the town is to escape the tyranny of their oppressors. The crowd murmurs quietly as the accusations begin to fly. A short time later, cloudRunner has been chosen, and nothing will dissuade those who think him guilty.

“Wait, no, 3iff is the guilty one!” shouts cloudRunner as they drag him to the block. “Payne! Kill them! Kill them all!” he begins to scream as he realizes that the Gold Cloaks are unmoved by his commands.

The Gold Cloaks step in front of Ilyn Payne with their swords drawn, and the King’s headsman is forced to back down. At this point the King realizes, to his horror, that there is not a White Cloak in sight. The Kingsguard has abandoned him in his time of need.

With the headsman detained, it falls to the guards to take care of Joffrey. His blood stains the dais as they discover, ironically, a blood red card on his person.


Player: cloudRunner
Role Name: Joffrey Baratheon, King of Westeros
Role: Serial Killer, Neutral

Night has fallen, and will end at approximately 10 AM (PST) on Thursday, May 17.

Final Vote Count
Code:

            3iff (1): cloudRunner
 Undercover Monk (1): 3iff
     cloudRunner (4): itisally, Jedo the Jedi, Captin Aniima, Undercover Monk
-------------------------
      Not voting (1): Silverfire

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"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 4:46 am    Post subject: 1620 Reply with quote

Another day dawns in King's Landing, but the townspeople have one less dwarf to scoff at. During the night, Tyrion Lannister and his camp follower Shae were run through while in bed. His card is revealed as white, indicating that he was indeed town.

Player
: Captin Aniima
Role Name: Tyrion “the Imp” Lannister, House Lannister
Role: Roleblocker, Town

Day begins now. With 5 alive it will take 3 to lynch.
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 12:35 pm    Post subject: 1621 Reply with quote

Here's what I see: If there are two mafia left, it is Monk and 3iff. If there is one mafia left, I believe it to be Monk.

vote Undercover Monk
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3iff
very unbifflike



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 12:40 pm    Post subject: 1622 Reply with quote

Captin Aniima, sorry to lose you, your report was spot on, Excellent analysis. We could have used your blocking until game-end. It does somewhat explain cloudRunner's strange defence of Zag a day or two ago.

UM: "sorry 3iff but it had to be done look what the result has brought"
I knew exactly why you did it and I don't take any offence at it. It brought the rest of the players back into the game which is what we needed, and it smoked out the SK.

UM: Post 1618, "Rolls dice" ??? really?

Jedo: I'm NOT mafia.

Vote: Undercover Monk
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Undercover Monk
Professor Chaos



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:37 pm    Post subject: 1623 Reply with quote

@3iff:

so you understand why i voted admit it smoked out the sj (granted not my intended purpose as i was under the assumption durryn was the sk) and yet with no real reasoning you vote me. I love how with only two posts Im already at L-2.

Of course it really doesnt matter. If their are two mafia we are already boned since silver isnt around other than to act as a place holder. we have four votes available and if there are 2 we've lost if there is 1 we are at lynch or lose so i would suggest one of you back off til i have a chance to defend myself lest you do something you regret.
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2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning
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Undercover Monk
Professor Chaos



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:59 pm    Post subject: 1624 Reply with quote

I am waiting on a confirmation from the mod on a question then i will claim.
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2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning
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itisally
Master of Disguise



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 6:19 pm    Post subject: 1625 Reply with quote

I cannot find a good reason that Jedo would argue with me all game and then suddenly agree with me when it is a mafia lynch. My evidence wasn't even as good when trying to lynch Cloudrunner as it was with Zag where he hemmed and hawed then hammered. He says he was promoting conversation in the Zag lynch, but I don't really see it and in every game I have seen hammering comes under scrutiny yet he feigns surprise. Before that there was a whole "mafia pool of abilities" idea that came out of nowhere. So strange and no real evidence for it. I combined all that with his dogged attack of Durryn (who the mafia would have only known wasn't one of them) and the summation of his behavior this game is very scummy.

vote: Jedo

I am sad to see Amiina go. I agree that we may be close to a Lynch or lose situation
3iff. I am not sure how what UM did makes him scum I would like to be able to support your vote as I am pretty sure you are town, but I find that your vote seems fueled by emotion and frustration rather than evidence. I will be looking over UM’s posting for the past few days more carefully, however; I am finding that as this game goes on I wish I had trusted my gut more and more.
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: 1626 Reply with quote

Monk, you are actually at L-1, and I don't intend to back off because I am pretty confident you are scum. Don't worry, though. I don't think a hammer is coming any time soon. We do need to talk.

itisally wrote:
I cannot find a good reason that Jedo would argue with me all game and then suddenly agree with me when it is a mafia lynch. My evidence wasn't even as good when trying to lynch Cloudrunner as it was with Zag where he hemmed and hawed then hammered. He says he was promoting conversation in the Zag lynch, but I don't really see it and in every game I have seen hammering comes under scrutiny yet he feigns surprise. Before that there was a whole "mafia pool of abilities" idea that came out of nowhere. So strange and no real evidence for it. I combined all that with his dogged attack of Durryn (who the mafia would have only known wasn't one of them) and the summation of his behavior this game is very scummy.

vote: Jedo

I don't understand that first sentence. Yes, we've been at odds, and I've pointed out why I think that is. My agreement with the cloud thing was on two major points: 1) I think the silence was faked, and 2) Aniima's results gave a plausible explanation.

You don't see me promoting conversation with the questions I asked and the speculation I offered about possible scenarios? You don't think we should have taken the time to talk about the endgame possibilities? I didn't "hem and haw" on Zag. I was saying, he's the most likely candidate for scum, but these things cause me to second-guess. Have you been 100% on all your reads this game? You have had no reservations? I had some and I presented them for scrutiny. Nobody really responded to those possibilities. For some reason, everybody just assumed Monk was correct without any analysis or discussion.

As for hammering Zag and my response, all I can say is what I've said before: would you rather the day had carried on until the deadline, stagnant with no discussion? I'm not feigning surprise at being scrutinized for hammering, but I think it's one of those out-dated notions (similar to the 3rd or 4th person on a bandwagon is scum). Seriously, somebody has to be the hammer. There's no getting around it unless you want the day to end because of a deadline...multiple, post-less days from now. I've done it twice this game when it was evident people weren't really wanting to converse. I view this as a foolish form of scumhunting, so I guess there should be no surprise about the initial person to voice it.

The "mafia pool of abilities" thing was actually sparked for me by novice.
novice wrote:
It could be an ability of one of his scum buddies.

I'm guessing he meant it as MNO taking credit for something his buddy did to save his hide, but I interpreted it as a Jack-of-all-Trades thing for the mafia. (I admit, I don't know if this has been used here, but I've seen it used multiple times on MS. That doesn't mean Sentran didn't do research and discover this mechanic. It's on the mafia wiki.) It was initially just an idea to explain MNO's excuse. We (novice and I) don't know any differently because we aren't mafia. However, when cloud claimed he was made silent, I thought that might explain these two events. It turns out now that they were probably both lying, but I couldn't have known that then. Like any other situation, I was coming up with possible explanations to help make sense of events. It doesn't seem any different to me than the speculations we have had regarding the double-voting early on and the SK who was only recently confirmed to have existed.

Finally, what is this business about Durryn? I saw major problems with his posts and responses to inquiry, and I attacked. He turned out to be neutral (which has as part of its meaning not town), so I was at least partially justified in what I saw. If you think that was because I was so confident because I was mafia, how do you justify Monk's certainty in Zag's alignment? Only scum would have known their own. It works two ways. It's just disappointing you only choose to use it as it suits you.

-------------------------------------------
I'll say it again: I'm pretty confident Monk is the remaining scum. (If there are two, it has to be 3iff because ally and Silver are confirmed.) That one paragraph from yesterday speaks volumes for me. He bought so quickly into Zag's scumminess based on circumstantial, associative evidence, but he didn't go along with the evidence Aniima presented against cloud? Then he turns both of the other critiques away with a wave of his hand? Please. I view what he was trying to drum up on 3iff as another ploy to gain towncred. "Look, I lynched Zag and 3iff single-handedly, I'm definitely town." It is a bold play, but very likely to work if the town is taken in by it. (This assumes 3iff is actually scum. On the other hand, if 3iff isn't scum, the only thing he has left is to convince ally that I am scum because I constantly look borderline scum. Seriously, against whom does Monk have a better chance of looking town in comparison: 3iff or myself?)
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Undercover Monk
Professor Chaos



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:48 pm    Post subject: 1627 Reply with quote

The mod has not forbade me from revealing certain aspects of my role but he did suggest against revealing too much and since his original message told me to keep it to myself I will honor it unless i feel it absolutely necesarry. I am basically a vanilla townie (that is no night powers) with an alternate win condition. I have to lynch a certain someone hence why I have been on, I think, every lynch except deception cause I was totally convinced that he was town.

I led the lynch on Zag or at least argued the most passionately. I am very worried after looking back on the day we lynched Zag that both 3iff and Jedo are mafia. Of course Im also worried the mafia did a double gambit with zag and mno hooking up and itisally hooking up with cap animala but then i suppose that if that were the case she would have finished me off.

so that leaves 3iff or jedo to lynch. I would like to hear role claims from both of you.
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2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning
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Undercover Monk
Professor Chaos



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:28 pm    Post subject: 1628 Reply with quote

Quote:
I'll say it again: I'm pretty confident Monk is the remaining scum. (If there are two, it has to be 3iff because ally and Silver are confirmed.) That one paragraph from yesterday speaks volumes for me. He bought so quickly into Zag's scumminess based on circumstantial, associative evidence, but he didn't go along with the evidence Aniima presented against cloud? Then he turns both of the other critiques away with a wave of his hand? Please. I view what he was trying to drum up on 3iff as another ploy to gain towncred. "Look, I lynched Zag and 3iff single-handedly, I'm definitely town." It is a bold play, but very likely to work if the town is taken in by it. (This assumes 3iff is actually scum. On the other hand, if 3iff isn't scum, the only thing he has left is to convince ally that I am scum because I constantly look borderline scum. Seriously, against whom does Monk have a better chance of looking town in comparison: 3iff or myself?)


CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE. I WAS RIGHT ABOUT ZAG YOU GREAT BLOOMIN PINWHEEL. (hee hee funny insult.) clearly the evidence wasnt circumstantial I caught him in a lie. If zag had been town you could have used the circumstantial evidence since he was scum you cant. Besides you think I am scum as well so why would I have to use circustantial evidence to lynch him anyway. If Im scum im as you say hard bussing which you do with hard evidence. plus animala herself voiced doubts about her theory supposedly there was a second role blocker thats a little hard to swallow. and the idea of putting pressure on lurkers not being a good scum hunting strategy is laughable and im pretty sure a total flip-flop from you from past games
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3. Never release Peyton Manning
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:33 pm    Post subject: 1629 Reply with quote

Mod Note: In the hopes of no longer having an absentee player, I have sent out 2 PMs to try to get a replacement. Unfortunately, there are not many active players who are NOT in this game.
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Undercover Monk
Professor Chaos



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:36 pm    Post subject: 1630 Reply with quote

sentran hit up tgc he just returned to the forum though i pity the person trying to skim 40+ pages
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2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:58 pm    Post subject: 1631 Reply with quote

Undercover Monk wrote:
sentran hit up tgc he just returned to the forum though i pity the person trying to skim 40+ pages

He was one of the two I sent a PM to.
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:16 pm    Post subject: 1632 Reply with quote

You are the one currently under the microscope, so you give the rest of your claim first.

Undercover Monk wrote:
CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE. I WAS RIGHT ABOUT ZAG YOU GREAT BLOOMIN PINWHEEL. (hee hee funny insult.) clearly the evidence wasnt circumstantial I caught him in a lie. If zag had been town you could have used the circumstantial evidence since he was scum you cant. Besides you think I am scum as well so why would I have to use circustantial evidence to lynch him anyway. If Im scum im as you say hard bussing which you do with hard evidence. plus animala herself voiced doubts about her theory supposedly there was a second role blocker thats a little hard to swallow.

It was circumstantial evidence. Ever since Day 2 there had been a connection between MNO and Zag because of the claim. Everybody saw it. Nobody considered the possibility of them being different alignments. I think that was a poor choice that met with relieving results. Really, for you to run in here and out-and-out say Zag was scum was not only unsurprising but expected (that somebody would do it at any rate). What better thing for a scum to do? This is not exonerating! I will concede that perhaps "circumstantial" isn't the best word, but maybe "coincidental" is better. There were definitely other explanations, but nobody stopped even to entertain them.

Let's examine Aniima's doubts. The doubt involved the possibility of cloud being the other roleblocker. Not even a possibility because then he wouldn't be blocking any kills because she is blocking him. Not a worthwhile doubt. In fact, it's a logical impossibility. You bought into that? We could even look at cloud's scenarios he presented, but those were super weak. The idea that there was no SK was the most off-base thing possible because having two vigilantes is much less balanced. You are better than that, Monk. While we're at it, we might as well consider why the mafia failed to kill on certain nights: 1) they have abilities other than killing (in the JOAT setup),* 2) their victim was saved by a protection role, 3) they failed to send in the kill, etc. Two roleblockers just amounts to another option.

What I'm arguing is why are you so slow to consider other options and so certain your assessment is correct?

*Let's be honest, this isn't that far-fetched. In Zag's game, the mafia had to give up killing to recruit somebody, thus resulting in no mafia kill that night. We're at the end, people. We can't let ourselves be pigeon-holed into things. Yes, we can eliminate some options through probability, but let's not do it wholesale.
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:19 pm    Post subject: 1633 Reply with quote

Undercover Monk wrote:
and the idea of putting pressure on lurkers not being a good scum hunting strategy is laughable and im pretty sure a total flip-flop from you from past games

Let's see some evidence for this statement. These are the statements I am most good at catching scum in. Scum like to throw out the idea of a blight on somebody, but it's rarely actually true. There's nothing like suggesting something that nobody is going to go confirm. You would probably make an excellent politician.
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itisally
Master of Disguise



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:17 pm    Post subject: 1634 Reply with quote

Jedo the Jedi wrote:
You are the one currently under the microscope, so you give the rest of your claim first.


Oh UM, go ahead and vote him so you will both be at L-1 and we can argue who is under more pressure. Oh, Jiminy Or maybe we should just mass claim and get it over with! I am sure whoever needs to has a lie ready.
UM, your partial claim is like saying I am vanilla because I have nothing that needs to be activated. Names go a long way in my book Laughing

Jedo wrote:
Ever since Day 2 there had been a connection between MNO and Zag because of the claim. Everybody saw it. Nobody considered the possibility of them being different alignments. I think that was a poor choice that met with relieving results. Really, for you to run in here and out-and-out say Zag was scum was not only unsurprising but expected (that somebody would do it at any rate). What better thing for a scum to do? This is not exonerating! I will concede that perhaps "circumstantial" isn't the best word, but maybe "coincidental" is better. There were definitely other explanations, but nobody stopped even to entertain them.


This isn't true. I know I thought about them, and concluded that, at best, it was unlikely. I believe it came up on day two, but I don't want to wade through it just to quote it exactly.
I think that monk had more confirmed evidence on Zag than you did on Durryn. MNO coming up scum when they are closely linked was real evidence even if it wasn't conclusive, because Zag had no influence over it. Could it have been possible that MNO was a vanillizer, sure, but I thought there were other problems with Zag’s play as well.
And, Novice noting that MNO might cover for a scum buddy doesn’t equal a pool of abilities to draw from. It means they have each other’s backs. I have read about a pool of abilities, but it would not fit with this theme or what we have seen in my opinion.

Jedo wrote:
Let's examine Aniima's doubts.


Let’s face it Aniima had not given a lot of examples of stellar logic before coming forward with her results. Anyone could have had a reasonable doubt based on her play, especially as a newb. Really, accepting the possibility that she could be wrong is considering other options.

Jedo wrote:
Let's see some evidence for this statement. These are the statements I am most good at catching scum in. Scum like to throw out the idea of a blight on somebody, but it's rarely actually true.


It may just be my experience, but a quiet mafia member can hide in the shadows a lot longer than a verbose one. Getting them to talk increases the chances of them saying something that will give them away. That is the point of pressuring lurkers. Not that every lurker is scum, however; just looking at lurkers tends to make the scum post more because they don’t want to be considered lurkers. It is hard to find scum , as you claim, with arguments on “outdated” mafia theory.

As for Circumstantial evidence…THIS IS MAFIA!... it is all circumstance. At some point you make a leap of faith based on how compelling you think it is. This isn't criminal law here guys.

Jedo, I have never seen a game go dead completely for lack of a hammer, nor did I feel as though this game had yet gone stagnant. Of course that is because I have a life and hadn’t posted in ::Gasp:: 24 hours! But I am sure you will acknowledge that it is a matter of perception.
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:30 pm    Post subject: 1635 Reply with quote

MOD NOTE: Beginning immediately, Silverfire will be replaced by The_Great_Crep'er. In order to allow this poor soul to play catch-up on what is the longest game in GL history, I will be extending the deadline to one week from today.

Day 8, 5 alive, 3 to lynch
Deadline: Wednesday, 23 May
Current Vote Count
Code:

 Undercover Monk (2): Jedo the Jedi, 3iff
   Jedo the Jedi (1): itisally
-------------------------
      Not voting (2): The_Great_Crep’er, Undercover Monk

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"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland
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Captin Aniima
Daedalian Member



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:42 pm    Post subject: 1636 Reply with quote

ALBUQUERQUE!!!!!!

GO TOWN!!!! Enthusiastic Grin


ps hee hee I escaped before the rest of you... Laughing
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The Great Crep'er
2% Spambot



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:47 pm    Post subject: 1637 Reply with quote

Longest game in GL history? I feel like I'm the first man to walk on the moon. Laughing

Confirmation post. Any aid from my fellow players would be greatly appreciated as I catch up on what you've all said up to this point. (May not be the best filter, but it's something for now)

Oh, and thanks mod. Enthusiastic Grin
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Undercover Monk
Professor Chaos



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:57 pm    Post subject: 1638 Reply with quote

Quote:

You are the one currently under the microscope, so you give the rest of your claim first.


Vote:Jedo

Not anymore. Talk about being a politician. You put more spin on things than a harlem globetrotter. I didnt say Ihad hard evidence but if your willing to admit you lied if i go and find an instance of you saying that then I will delve into other games as opposed to this one.

@TGC we all know your innocent but please dont break the deadlock til we discuss strategy.
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1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning
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The Great Crep'er
2% Spambot



PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 12:05 am    Post subject: 1639 Reply with quote

Undercover Monk wrote:


@TGC we all know your innocent but please dont break the deadlock til we discuss strategy.


Absolutely. Don't worry, I'm not that reckless.

(While I'm reading) Have any of you theorized at all as to how many bad guys we're facing at the moment?
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Undercover Monk
Professor Chaos



PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 12:31 am    Post subject: 1640 Reply with quote

5 people so 1-2 mafia at most wee could be at LoL already
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2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning
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