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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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 Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:13 pm Post subject: 161 |
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VERTIGO is correct. I suppose that was the obvious option, but there were several other valid ones.
Please do try to solve Jack_Ian's puzzle the proper way.
Your answers for the meta aren't correct.
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Scurra
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:16 pm Post subject: 162 |
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Yes, I'd just got to that point as well (what they had in common.)
Although aesthetically the answer ought to have six letters?
edit: typed while the reply was being posted...
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New definitions: COFFEE - someone who is coughed upon
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Oscar
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:23 pm Post subject: 163 |
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As I indicated I am going to try to solve Jack_Ian's puzzle in the proper way.
And since the individual answers all begin with different Roman numerals (as I'm sure Scurra also noted) the only option left was a film beginning with 'V' so it wasn't really that much of a guess. |
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:26 pm Post subject: 164 |
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When composing the puzzle, my options included Valkyrie, Volcano and Volver, but I guess Vertigo stands out as the best candidate.
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Oscar
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:29 pm Post subject: 165 |
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| I meant, in conjunction with the title of J_I's puzzle, it wasn't really much of a guess... |
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3iff
very unbifflike
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:32 pm Post subject: 166 |
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| As for the final puzzle...again, I would never have seen that. I always look at the wrong part of the puzzle! |
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Scurra
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:39 pm Post subject: 167 |
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| Suspence wrote: |
| When composing the puzzle, my options included Valkyrie, Volcano and Volver, but I guess Vertigo stands out as the best candidate. |
Hmmm. That rules out the word lengths being relevant (I had noticed that, up until Vertigo, the non-six letter answers were all different lengths.) And the fact that you could pick from that list also suggests that only the V matters anyway.
How about ROMAN HOLIDAY?! (Not a single word movie title though, so not very likely.)
(In passing I wonder if you could have used e.g. MASK and CRASH to make an ascending length sequence as a red herring? Always assuming that the final titles are in fact irrelevant!)
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still Quiz Olympiad champion. Must get a life.
New definitions: COFFEE - someone who is coughed upon
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:49 pm Post subject: 168 |
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| Oscar wrote: |
| I meant, in conjunction with the title of J_I's puzzle, it wasn't really much of a guess... |
Ah, yes...the title. That did give it away.
I think I'll learn from that for the next meta. Make something where the final page requires additional information, not just the puzzle answers. Then only release the meta-page when all others are solved. I feel badly that this undermined Jack_Ian's work.
ROMAN HOLIDAY is not correct.
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3iff
very unbifflike
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:55 pm Post subject: 169 |
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| I agree...glad it wasn't my work... |
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Oscar
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:55 pm Post subject: 170 |
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In J_I's puzzle I must be missing something. What's to stop you entering through the green gate immediately turning left (presumably powered by the momentum mushroom?) then exiting through the red gate?
Also is it intended that after eating a mushroom you continue in a straight line? And when you land on a square you pick up all the letters on it? Which then have to be used in the final cooking? |
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3iff
very unbifflike
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:57 pm Post subject: 171 |
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Call in SUPERHEROES
Actually, 1666 might be a better choice.
Call in 1666
Last edited by 3iff on Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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novice
No harm. Pun intended!
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:02 pm Post subject: 172 |
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| Oscar wrote: |
In J_I's puzzle I must be missing something. What's to stop you entering through the green gate immediately turning left (presumably powered by the momentum mushroom?) then exiting through the red gate?
Also is it intended that after eating a mushroom you continue in a straight line? And when you land on a square you pick up all the letters on it? Which then have to be used in the final cooking? |
I wondered the same thing and tentatively concluded that you have to traverse the entire garden - although that would entaill picking up a lot of letters. |
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novice
No harm. Pun intended!
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:11 pm Post subject: 173 |
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As for the meta:
Back in the old days => ADD can be found backwards in "the old days"
MDCLXVI is year 1666, the year of the great fire of London. So maybe a one-word movie about that event? This was the closest I could get:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restoration_(1995_film)
CALL IN RESTORATION |
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:14 pm Post subject: 174 |
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RESTORATION, SUPERHEREOS (I'd love an explanation), and 1666 are all incorrect.
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Oscar
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:14 pm Post subject: 175 |
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Maybe the deal is:
you enter with your first step, stop, eat the mushroom, then on your next step you go 2 spaces... |
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3iff
very unbifflike
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:17 pm Post subject: 176 |
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| Suspence wrote: |
| SUPERHEREOS (I'd love an explanation) |
Well, some of them are somewhat obscure superheroes...Madame Xanadu, Vertigo, Invincible and Defiance...although it's a bit tenuous...and now also incorrect. |
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3iff
very unbifflike
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject: 177 |
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novice, similar ideas at the same time.
I think it's too much of a coincidence that all the clues begin with roman numerals. Adding them seems a reasonable move...to no avail.
| Quote: |
When composing the puzzle, my options included Valkyrie, Volcano and Volver, but I guess Vertigo stands out as the best candidate.
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Which means that the first letter is important but the other letters are not.
Last edited by 3iff on Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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novice*
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:27 pm Post subject: 178 |
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| Maybe the answer is simply POLANSKI or REPULSION (one of his first movies). |
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:29 pm Post subject: 179 |
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Neither of those are correct. When you have the correct answer, you will know it.
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I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature. |
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Scurra
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:23 pm Post subject: 180 |
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| Suspence wrote: |
| I think I'll learn from that for the next meta. Make something where the final page requires additional information, not just the puzzle answers. Then only release the meta-page when all others are solved. I feel badly that this undermined Jack_Ian's work. |
I would note that when the set only consists of 7 answers, and we'd solved six of them, and already noted one common feature (that helped rule out a proposed answer earlier), then there weren't going to be a lot of options once the other common feature was also noted - especially when the second feature was a heavily constrained set. I guessed the answer myself from context. When Oscar pointed out the title, then I realised that I'd made it harder for myself!
Speaking from experience, I tend to write metas with between 12 and 18 puzzles in them, as that seems to provide a large enough space to work in without the whole thing getting out of hand - but then again, my solvers tend to get the puzzles in one big lot, rather than one at a time, and too many puzzles is intimidating. Whereas only having one to work on is frustrating (hence my abiding hatred of those linear webpuzzles where if you get stuck that's basically it.) I think the MIT "unlocking" system is perhaps the best - there are generally ten or so puzzles available at any one time so there's always something else to look at without it getting silly.
Personally I think that the best metas are the ones that don't require any other information beyond the answers - and maybe a title. If that means that sometimes a puzzle can be short-circuited, then that may be an acceptable price to pay. It clearly doesn't work if the puzzles are being issued sequentially though and there is a strong through-line to the answers.
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still Quiz Olympiad champion. Must get a life.
New definitions: COFFEE - someone who is coughed upon
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Jack_Ian
Big Endian
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:39 pm Post subject: 181 |
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| Oscar wrote: |
In J_I's puzzle I must be missing something. What's to stop you entering through the green gate immediately turning left (presumably powered by the momentum mushroom?) then exiting through the red gate?
Also is it intended that after eating a mushroom you continue in a straight line? And when you land on a square you pick up all the letters on it? Which then have to be used in the final cooking? |
Enter one step at a time, land on mushroom (current step-length now equals 2), now take 2 steps up or down. |
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Jack_Ian
Big Endian
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:46 pm Post subject: 182 |
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I feel bad for me too 
Knowing the answer does not really help you back-solve my puzzle though, so feel free to give it a try.
The maze was bolted on, but since I now have written code to test it, let me know if there's interest in me producing a more challenging maze along the same lines. I could add other mathematical functions too. |
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:52 pm Post subject: 183 |
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| Scurra wrote: |
| Suspence wrote: |
| I think I'll learn from that for the next meta. Make something where the final page requires additional information, not just the puzzle answers. Then only release the meta-page when all others are solved. I feel badly that this undermined Jack_Ian's work. |
I would note that when the set only consists of 7 answers, and we'd solved six of them, and already noted one common feature (that helped rule out a proposed answer earlier), then there weren't going to be a lot of options once the other common feature was also noted - especially when the second feature was a heavily constrained set. I guessed the answer myself from context. When Oscar pointed out the title, then I realised that I'd made it harder for myself!
Speaking from experience, I tend to write metas with between 12 and 18 puzzles in them, as that seems to provide a large enough space to work in without the whole thing getting out of hand - but then again, my solvers tend to get the puzzles in one big lot, rather than one at a time, and too many puzzles is intimidating. Whereas only having one to work on is frustrating (hence my abiding hatred of those linear webpuzzles where if you get stuck that's basically it.) I think the MIT "unlocking" system is perhaps the best - there are generally ten or so puzzles available at any one time so there's always something else to look at without it getting silly.
Personally I think that the best metas are the ones that don't require any other information beyond the answers - and maybe a title. If that means that sometimes a puzzle can be short-circuited, then that may be an acceptable price to pay. It clearly doesn't work if the puzzles are being issued sequentially though and there is a strong through-line to the answers. |
Good advice,Scurra. When I finish the meta for Version 2.0, perhaps you'd be a willing test solver? It would take you out of the running for solving individual puzzles though, which would be a shame.
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I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature. |
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:16 pm Post subject: 184 |
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Was just reading back through the MIT Hunt thread and realized a similar thing happened. I solved Blinkenlights as a back-solve from the Betsy Johnson meta. Of course, there was much more work involved in deducing the answer from that meta, so that made it better. But it was probably disappointing for the creators of Blinkenlights if the majority solved their puzzle via that method.
I was actually worried that my current meta would fall really quickly, possibly before all the puzzle answers were in, but apparently not.
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I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature. |
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LordKinbote
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:13 pm Post subject: 185 |
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| Scurra wrote: |
| Suspence wrote: |
| I think I'll learn from that for the next meta. Make something where the final page requires additional information, not just the puzzle answers. Then only release the meta-page when all others are solved. I feel badly that this undermined Jack_Ian's work. |
I would note that when the set only consists of 7 answers, and we'd solved six of them, and already noted one common feature (that helped rule out a proposed answer earlier), then there weren't going to be a lot of options once the other common feature was also noted - especially when the second feature was a heavily constrained set. I guessed the answer myself from context. When Oscar pointed out the title, then I realised that I'd made it harder for myself!
Speaking from experience, I tend to write metas with between 12 and 18 puzzles in them, as that seems to provide a large enough space to work in without the whole thing getting out of hand - but then again, my solvers tend to get the puzzles in one big lot, rather than one at a time, and too many puzzles is intimidating. Whereas only having one to work on is frustrating (hence my abiding hatred of those linear webpuzzles where if you get stuck that's basically it.) I think the MIT "unlocking" system is perhaps the best - there are generally ten or so puzzles available at any one time so there's always something else to look at without it getting silly.
Personally I think that the best metas are the ones that don't require any other information beyond the answers - and maybe a title. If that means that sometimes a puzzle can be short-circuited, then that may be an acceptable price to pay. It clearly doesn't work if the puzzles are being issued sequentially though and there is a strong through-line to the answers. |
Ah, the neverending debate between pure and shell metas. Personally, I think there are benefits to both. There are things you just can't do with a pure meta, but you're sacrificing elegance to do so. We tried to have our cake and eat it too at MIT this year by making half the metas pure and half the metas shell so that everyone (or no one) would be happy. It's hard to make a pure meta that's more than just one "aha"...once you get what all the answers have in common, then you're pretty much done. Shell metas might require more "work" from the solver. I was pretty involved on the meta side (3 pure and 1 shell) and they're definitely one of the hardest puzzle types to write well. You want them solvable at about 3/4 of the puzzles solved. Less than that, and lots of puzzles are being ignored, which is a shame, but more than that and teams hit roadblocks that they never escape from. We threw away several good ideas because they were too easily solvable, or only solvable with pretty much all the answers (there is a much less forgiving version of the Sheila Sunshine meta out there somewhere). |
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novice
No harm. Pun intended!
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:56 pm Post subject: 186 |
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| Jack_Ian wrote: |
| Oscar wrote: |
In J_I's puzzle I must be missing something. What's to stop you entering through the green gate immediately turning left (presumably powered by the momentum mushroom?) then exiting through the red gate?
Also is it intended that after eating a mushroom you continue in a straight line? And when you land on a square you pick up all the letters on it? Which then have to be used in the final cooking? |
Enter one step at a time, land on mushroom (current step-length now equals 2), now take 2 steps up or down. |
Here's one path through the labyrinth, at least:
1E-2s-4e-4n-1e-5n-2s-2w-4n-4e-6s-2e-2n-3e-3n-3n-6w-2e-6w-2w-1s-3s-3s
- - i/l - - - t/* - r/r - - e/m - l/t d/g - - - - - - a/e t/n */p |
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Oscar
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:11 pm Post subject: 187 |
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| Yes, that's the same as the shortest path I found, but it's 16 letters or 2 groups of 8 with no anagrams of either or both sets that suggest anything to me. I also wonder what is meant by 'cleaning'? |
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novice
No harm. Pun intended!
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:31 pm Post subject: 188 |
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| Maybe we need to include the letters we stepped over, too. |
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Oscar
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:16 am Post subject: 189 |
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I tried removing the letters for 'dirt' 'grit' or 'grime' from the letters collected but couldn't get any helpful anagrams from the remainder and the fact that there's no 'V' or 'O' rules out a direct anagram.
I'm fairly certain that the path already outlined is the shortest available though.
[edit] As soon as type that I found a shorter one!
1e-2s-4n-9n-8s-8n-7s-7n-6e2e-6w-2e-6w-2w-1s-3s-3s
- - - - - g/e - n/t - - - - - - a/e t/n */p
giving a string of GENTAETNP
[re-edit]
The problem is that this technique yields 2 solutions:
you could go 7e at move 7 to pick up s/m instead which would give a string of GEMSAETNP and neither of these strings seem to give a helpful anagram. |
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Scurra
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:57 am Post subject: 190 |
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| LordKinbote wrote: |
| Ah, the neverending debate between pure and shell metas. Personally, I think there are benefits to both. There are things you just can't do with a pure meta, but you're sacrificing elegance to do so. |
Oh I don't disagree. I was merely saying that I prefer "pure" ones, but only because the elegance appeals and because I know how hard it is to make the elegance work across multiple levels (see, for instance, the 3x3x3 I recently posted here, where everything worked except for one aspect of the final three answer words. So it ends up looking clunky. At least, it does to me!)
If the only thing that matters here are the roman numerals, then that suggests the given order is important - since there isn't any other way they can be sorted into a specific order. However, CDMLXIV doesn't make a valid number that I can see. (And although 1666 is the total, that doesn't seem to go anywhere much either.)
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still Quiz Olympiad champion. Must get a life.
New definitions: COFFEE - someone who is coughed upon
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Jack_Ian
Big Endian
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:33 am Post subject: 191 |
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| Oscar wrote: |
As soon as type that I found a shorter one!
1e-2s-4n-9n-8s-8n-7s-7n-6e2e-6w-2e-6w-2w-1s-3s-3s
- - - - - g/e - n/t - - - - - - a/e t/n */p |
You had me worried there, but mushrooms don't grow back that quickly, even in the witch's garden. 
I will confirm that the shortest path through is 1E-...2s-4e-4n-1e-5n-2s-2w-4n-4e-6s-2e-2n-3e-3n-3n-6w-2e-6w-2w-1s-3s-3s-3s...-3W (exit at speed )
You forgot to type the last step, but it was obviously a typo.
You're on the right track. |
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Oscar
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject: 192 |
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OK. I tried removing 'all dirt', 'all grit' and 'litter' from the set and still can't get a helpful anagram. I even removed 'garden' to no avail.
I looked at using 'green' to see if I could get 'vert' via French translation or heraldry. No go.  |
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novice
No harm. Pun intended!
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:35 pm Post subject: 193 |
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Here's the path, for those reading along:
 |
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novice
No harm. Pun intended!
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:41 pm Post subject: 194 |
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Ok, so here are the letters that the path crosses:
LITFAIRLIVMEOTRHNSTCSHCRHEURRCOUMFMFTDOINMEEXRRIITLTNGDIORRTEHNIOMSETRSWSAOGLEANLSOTNEGP
Too long to anagram.  . No K, so we can't spell HITCHCOCK. What do the asterisks signify, I wonder. And why are there two letters in each square. |
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Jack_Ian
Big Endian
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:54 pm Post subject: 195 |
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Just to move things along without giving too much away...
It may help to lay out the ingredients as follows:
| Code: |
lifilveth*schrercuff*dimeritt*girthimer*wagenstep
*tarimornt*schuromm*tonexriln*dorenosts*solalong* |
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novice
No harm. Pun intended!
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:08 pm Post subject: 196 |
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| Jack_Ian wrote: |
Just to move things along without giving too much away...
It may help to lay out the ingredients as follows:
| Code: |
lifilveth*schrercuff*dimeritt*girthimer*wagenstep
*tarimornt*schuromm*tonexriln*dorenosts*solalong* |
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OK, so that's collecting. Not "as I go", since we've done two loops. :p
Anyway, cleaning is probably by removing words meaning dirt, etc.
So
live (filth) * ? * meit (dirt) * ithr (grime) * genp (waste) |
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jbvntx
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:33 pm Post subject: 197 |
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also taint, scum, toxin, dross, slag
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jbv |
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novice
No harm. Pun intended!
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:33 pm Post subject: 198 |
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live (filth) * herc (scruff) * meit (dirt) * ithr (grime) * genp (waste)
rmor (taint) * hrom (scum) * nerl (toxin) * oent (dross) * olon (slag) |
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novice
No harm. Pun intended!
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:55 pm Post subject: 199 |
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Mixing well...
| novice wrote: |
live (filth) * herc (scruff) * meit (dirt) * ithr (grime) * genp (waste)
rmor (taint) * hrom (scum) * nerl (toxin) * oent (dross) * olon (slag) |
Meit + genp = pigment + e
Hrom + oent = hormone + t
Live + oent = violent + e
rmor + meit = mortimer
live + oent = elevation - a |
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jbvntx
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:03 pm Post subject: 200 |
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Chemical elements are in there, minus the "...IUM"
LIVERMOR - (ununhexium) - 116
HER - maybe this should be HEL, for Helium, or ERB for Erbium?
CHROM - Chromium - 24
MEITNER - Meitnerium - 109 - Mt
LITH - Lithium - 3
ROENTGEN - Roentgenium - 111 - Rg
POLON - Polonium - 84 - Po
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jbv |
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