Isn't it Ironic?

[Jedo the Jedi]

So, this has been bugging me recently, and I need to get some opinions. (I looked for this elsewhere on the GL, but didn't see it.)

I have heard many people argue that Alanis Morissette's song, "Ironic," has no examples of irony. Well, I understand that irony is a highly misunderstood concept, but I really think the second verse provides some irony.

Mr. Play It Safe was afraid to fly
He packed his suitcase and kissed his kids goodbye
He waited his whole damn life to take that flight
And as the plane crashed down he thought
"Well isn't this nice..."

I want the whole situation to be ironic because he feared dying in a plane crash and the first plane he took crashed and killed him. I think I understand how this is more coincidence than irony. I suppose the situation would be more ironic if we knew he was going to die on the plane ahead of time. All that aside, I do believe his statement at the end is an ironic statement.

Anyway, is there anybody who can correct this notion for me? If nothing else, perhaps the song is ironic in the fact that it contains no instances of irony, in which case Alanis is a genius. If none of these things, I guess she's just stupid.
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[extropalopakettle]

This belongs in the Serious Discussions section.

[Chuck]

If this got moved to Serious Discussions and then I posted a joke in the thread, would that be irony?

[extropalopakettle]

I suggest we perform that experiment.

[Suspence]

A nice breakdown of the whole song (though on an annoying background) here.

This agrees with your assertion that both Mr. Play-It-Safe's story and statement are ironic.
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I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Zag]

I may have a higher standard for irony (in actions) but I think that, in order to qualify, the attempt to avoid an event has to be what causes it, or vice-versa.

It would be a better example of irony if he took a train because he was afraid to fly, and then the train was struck by a crashing airplane.

Another example: you're running a little late for an important appointment so you speed a bit to make up the time, and then get pulled over by the cops. The point is that your attempt to be on time was the actual cause of being late (or even later than you would have been).

I don't think a whole lot of the analysis that Suspence linked to. I disagree that it is ironic that someone who is afraid to fly crashes on the first time he manages to overcome his fears; it was just a really unfortunate coincidence. However, his dying comment clearly IS ironic. To make the situation ironic, somehow his fear of flying should have caused the crash. For example, it would work if he brought his own life raft aboard the plane out of paranoia, it accidentally inflated in the aircraft and caused the pilot to lose control. That would be hard to fit into the song, however.

The line, "It's the good advice that you just didn't take." could possibly be ironic if the person otherwise would have done the smart thing but didn't specifically because of the advice. For instance, a teenager who was going to wear his jacket, but then didn't as a pissy reaction to his mother telling him to put one on (and he then gets caught in the rain)... that case would qualify.

[Suspence]

[Zag]

That one I'm ok with, assuming you infer that it was the excitement of winning that killed him (which isn't unreasonable).

[Suspence]

I thought the same until I read your definition around "avoiding". He wasn't trying to avoid anything. Surely, the excitement of winning was a known risk of playing the lottery.

It does seem to fit the "happening in the opposite way to what is expected". Winning the lottery should lead to extreme happiness, if it leads instead to extreme sadness (death), that seems to qualify.
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I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Jack_Ian]

Some early Ed Byrne tackles this very issue.

[Jedo the Jedi]

So, the guy's statement is ironic, and the rest of the song isn't. Such a shame. Now I can't even credit her with being clever.
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[Suspence]

How about:
"An old man turned ninety-one/He won the lottery, and died from the stun"
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I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Macros]

I always thought the line from mrs doubtfire covered ironic pretty well.
An alcoholic being killed by a drink delivery truck.

Maybe it would be more ironic if an Alco was killed by an AA leader an route to a meeting?

But I agree the song ironic is merely a list of unfortunate events rather than anything actually ironic
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[Jack_Ian]

[Death Mage]

Cosmic irony.
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[grz*]

I always tell people that the most ironic line in this song is "Yeah, I really do think."

[j_s*]

This video parody is pretty amusing, and successful at irony.

[Jedo the Jedi]

It's a shame she changed the only ironic line in the song (as previously established above). She's cute though.
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[Jedo the Jedi]

Watching Seinfeld, and this episode presents itself.

George has recently bought a toupee. He then begins dating a woman, but keeps secret the fact of his baldness. The woman turns out to be bald, and George is turned off by it. He loses the toupee, but feels freedom in not hiding his baldness anymore. He decides the baldness of the woman is not that bad. She rejects him for being bald.

Irony?
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Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Gomez]

George Carlin's definition of irony:

"If a diabetic gets knocked down by a truck while crossing the road and dies, that's tragic. If he gets knocked down by a truck carrying insulin, then that's ironic. And if he gets knocked down by a sugar truck, that's just funny"

[Beanzilla*]

Couldn't the entire concept of the song be considered ironic?

If the authors' intentions were to sit down with the intention of writing a song filled with irony and ironic scenarios, and the end-product of their attempts is essentially devoid of irony, it would seem to me that the song in its entirety is an example of irony. No?

[Buzzsaw]

What about something in need of irony. Like this wrinkled pair of pants for example..

[mucous*]