Heroes and Villains mafia - The town claim victory

[Undercover Monk]

@raekul

Oh good grief seriously did you just encourage someone to claim on day 1. Thats like saying go ahead lie we will believe whatever you say. In fact major FOS: raekuul were you trying to get him to use a safe claim without us noticing. If garou turns scum Im coming after you next. Seriously the more I re-read that post the more it screams scum to me.

1. Holds off voting til he hears from garou but indicates one is likely to come. Then when he votes he can say he gave him a chance but didnt buy it. This is a ploy I myself have used effectively as scum will look up the game later for reference.


2. Says he washes his hands of the town killing rae. As if he knows that Garou will turn town. He even says he will take the risk of hammering a townie.

3. he admits he hasnt said much and being off scumdars have made him happy.

4. encourages garou to claim (like I said possibly telling him to use a safeclaim.)

I really think I may have stumbled on to scum here. Unvote, Vote:raekul
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Undercover Monk]

[Zag]

[Garou_Kinfolk]

Just wanted to say a quick couple of things here. First, my rebuttal will probably be in many parts (the whole phone/character limit thing ).

Second:

[Garou_Kinfolk]

Oh, and I never unvoted TGC. So unless a power was used, I think my vote was missed.

[3iff]

Oops, somehow removed your vote in error, Garou. Apologies and thanks for alerting me.

[Sentran]

I read through the latest Raekuul post, and had the same response echoed by both Zag and UM. That moves him past GK and TGC to the top of my scum list. Unvote, Vote: Raekuul
Seriously, saying "I've managed to stay quiet and off of most people's scum lists today" is akin to saying "Fall back, I can cover you, I haven't been hit yet" within earshot of the game master.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Garou_Kinfolk]

[Sentran]

That's not really much of a rebuttal. It appears more like an attempt to post more without replying to the concerns of other players, which is a tactic I've used in games where I was Mafia. You're still my current second place.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Garou_Kinfolk]

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Amb]

I must admit Raekuul's posts did make me think a little bit. Actually a lot. And not nice thoughts. But the speed at which his bandwagon reaped in votes makes me very suspicious. The case against Garou is across his whole game, with a few standout posts. The case against Raekuul is really on one post. One very scummy post.

But it is very tempting to hammer for two reasons:
1. We as a group already hammered Zag earlier, and this day would have been over already. (And should have been. And had that happened, some tempers might never have flared)

2. I completely understand the reason that Raekuul is being voted.

3.

[Sentran]

[Amb]

Vote Raekuul

We should have been at night before I even signed up.

[raekuul]

I'm dead either way. I'm glad to see that I can still deliberately trip scumdars even with being massively out of practice, though I think I picked the wrong game to do it. Oskar Schindler, doctor.

[Garou_Kinfolk]

With Raekuul being lynched, I guess that means I don't have to post my rebuttal, but I plan to post a quick and dirty one later before 3iff posts the closing scene just so it's there to be looked at for tomorrows debate. Still Ar work so I can't do it now. I'm going to look hard at those on the lynch party during the night phase, just to see what I can find there.
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Most posts made from my phone.

[raekuul]

I notice you're not the one hammering. I'm only at L-1, you know.

[raekuul]

Wait, scratch that, I can't count.

[Garou_Kinfolk]

Like I said, here's the quick and dirty version. Basically my reminder notes on what I wanted to say.

[3iff]

That's day end. Lynch report coming soon. Those with business at night can get to it.

No more posts here until I declare morning.

[3iff]

As always, the lynch text is for flavour only. Don't try to meta-read anything. Most will be written in advance anyway!


Dr Venkman called the residents into the main reception room and everyone took a seat. Nurse Diesel stood by the door.

"The votes have been cast and I can now announce the 'winner'." He paused for effect and the assembled members turned their eyes towards Raekuul, some in shock, perhaps some with a steely glint of satisfaction.

"It is the view of the residents that Raekuul is no longer wanted at this retirement home owing to the fact that he has evil intentions to the other occupants. Circumstantial evidence has been shown to me that he was responsible for the ill fortune that befell Mr Finch. I am happy to trust the decision made by our residents. I'm not here to judge."

Raekuul rose from his seat. "It's a lie", his glaring eyes turning to many of his accusers. He jabbed his finger at those who had voted for him. "You've made a terrible decision. I'm not going to...", but his voice trailed off.

Nurse Diesel had quickly jabbed him with a hypodermic and he slumped back into his chair. Dr Venkman approached him and searched his pockets. He found a card and held it aloft for all to see. It was white. (There were gasps of surprise.)

Player: Raekuul
Role Name: Oskar Schindler (Schindler's list).
Role: Doctor, Town

Chance, the gardener, was observed outside digging a rather large trench, far larger than that required for Raekuul. Perhaps he might have company soon.

===============

It is now night. Those with night-related business had better get to it.
No posting here until I announce that it's morning. Thankyou.

===============
The final vote.

[3iff]

It's morning. Everyone comes down for breakfast...

Well, it's quickly noticed that one person is missing. Undercover Monk has overslept. Nurse Diesel instructs one of the ancilliaries to wake him up...but the junior nurse soon returns and whispers something. Nurse Diesel leaves the dining room to investigate.

It seems that Undercover Monk has been shot in the chest. It must have happened last night but nobody heard a thing.

Player: Undercover Monk
Role Name: Lassie (Lassie come home)
Role: Innocent townsman, Non-Standard investigator, Town

It's Day 2, 7 alive, 4 to lynch.

[Zag]

Well, I'm glad I didn't investigate UMonk -- I had strongly considered it. I investigated Jedo and I got back a verdict of "Not guilty."

3iff also added a clarification, which wasn't in my original role PM, that a verdict of "guilty" would have meant a member of mafia, and "non guilty" means non-mafia. I don't know if he's saying that Jedo is a non-town, non-mafia; if he's saying that there are some non-town, non-mafia and he's only just now thinking to clarify, or if he's just messing with my head.

I'm starting a new job today and won't be online during the day. Don't take my silence as anything.

[Zag]

I should add that that is it for me as a cop -- that ability was one-shot. I have a couple other abilities that are not as significant.

[Jedo the Jedi]

I am perplexed by the choice to kill Monk.

Well, I'll look back over and consider the move for the day. I'm not going to lie, it will probably be Zag, but I'll try to keep an open mind for what might pop up through a re-read.
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Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Undercover Monk]

Bah humbug I suppose I should take it as a compliment that I scare the mafia enough to warrant a N1 kill even when I don't think I played my best game game. GO TOWN.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Sentran]

[Amb]

Guess I should have stuck to my guns: Vote Garou Kinfolk to get the day started.

[Jedo the Jedi]

So, we're likely at 5/2. If we don't get scum today, tomorrow is Lylo. We were such idiots for jumping on raekuul so quickly, but he also shouldn't have done that.

If you believe Zag is town, then I am town unless you also posit some way for his results to have been tampered. (It's not unbelievable.) If Zag is lying, I think you have to evaluate my alignment independently, though you can postulate how you think Zag being scum tips the scales. Basically, I'm just laying this out here because I will call you on inconsistency in this matter if it happens.

Anyway, I'm frustrated with how yesterday turned out, and I'm even more upset by Monk's death. We lynched the doc and lost an investigator (whatever "non-standard" means), and I feel like there is no clear sign of mafia from the previous Day. Certainly all of the lynches proposed (Zag, Garou, and raekuul) were based on Day 1 "evidence," but I really don't know how much those hold up today. Looking back on it, I kind of feel like Garou's was based on the best actual evidence with how it came about so late in the day, but I'm still not confident.

Ugh. Give me another day to decide. Maybe somebody can respond to the thoughts I've brought up here.
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Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Amb]

With only day 1 to draw on, and very little we can conclude from that - I don't know what we can do. A mass claim won't achieve much due to the wide variety of roles. And with the doc dead, an ability claim will simply line up the players the mafia need to hit.

It's entirely possible the mafia didnt try to kill Zag in the hopes he 'investigated' a GF. So if Zag is who he says he is, Jedo is probably town but even then we can't assume it.

[Jedo the Jedi]

I overlooked a GF possibility, but I guess that falls under "tampered results."

It could also be that Sentran's team didn't kill Monk and is flabbergasted by the result. This would suggest a re-director, though I'm not sure about that.

The more I think about it, the more tempted I am just to say, "Fuck it," vote Garou, and move on. In my opinion, minis are so hard for town. I'll just hold off until some more ideas are thrown around.

Personally, if anybody has incontrovertible results that somebody is scum, I'm willing to trade 1-for-1. Let's just have a lead of some kind.
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Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Amb]

Well I'm working on the basis right now that both you and Zag are innocent because I lack any realistic way of saying otherwise. If you aren't innocent then let me know

You know what would make this game much better. Cookies.

[Zag]

Just to throw this out there: Unless Jedo is a Godfather, which seems pretty unlikely, I think you should consider him cleared. If I were scum, I certainly wouldn't claim to clear a scum buddy, because we all know that I am a likely target for today, and I would be too likely just to drag him down with me.

I'm willing to admit that coming out like that clearing a townie Jedo him is something that I possibly would do if I were scum and this were all a ploy. So I'm not trying to claim that I've been cleared by this action. But either way, you should remember that Jedo is town. (It is 'barely' possible that I'd try a double move, planning to post a note like this, but really unlikely. Anyway, I'm town, so if you lynch me, you'll only confirm Jedo even more.)

I have to assume that at least one of the scum was on last night's lynch party, which means (from my perspective, anyway) Sentran, Amb, or both. Do either of you want to make a statement?

I'm inclined to go with Sentran, who also voted to lynch me. And I still think jadesmar's attempt to hammer me was scummy. I've backed off of being SURE that it is, but I still think that it is.

I also still believe TGC to be reasonably cleared. I have no strong opinion on Garou. I think that's everybody.

[The Great Crep'er]

[Garou_Kinfolk]

I haven't gone through everything I wanted to about yesterday, but here's a couple of things that I really need to get off my mind in order to look elsewhere.

1: Jadesmar hasn't posted since his hammer attempt except for a short reply to Jedo. To me that feels like he's laying low to let the attention drift onto others.

2: Here's a theory about last night that's been running around my head since I saw who was N.K.ed. This is only a theory and I have no evidence to back it up at this point. Lets say Jedo is the godfather. He has Monk killed because they think soo much alike and he can't have Monk questioning him later. He leaves Zag alive for 2 reasons. 1st, because Zag is an easy lynch target for today and 2nd because (if I remember correctly) Zag said he wanted to investigate Jedo if he got the chance. This would then clear him for the rest of the game.

Again, just theory.
(Ran into character limit)
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Most posts made from my phone.

[The Great Crep'er]

The "Jedo is cleared" ideology seems to be taking on a quick pace. That doesn't sit quite well. I don't necessarily want to refute it, because two cop roles for such few investigatable (shut up) mafia make the possibility less than likely, but as a wise man once said "don't rule it out".

[Garou_Kinfolk]

Sorry about the double post, but I wanted to point out this one last thing. All throughout yesterday I had been getting the feeling that Jedo was letting Monk take the lead on rebutting Zags posts. This could just simply be that Monk was much more aggressive then Jedo, but it also makes me think that if Jedo were scum, he wouldn't want Monk to catch on and begin to question his townness when they began to post in dissimilar ways, since one is town and the other scum.

Again, this is only if Jedo is the gf (if there even is one.)
_________________
Most posts made from my phone.

[Jedo the Jedi]

TGC, I'm like Zag: it's going to take a lot for me to hold a grudge against you. Sure I get frustrated about people's play and I probably bitch and moan about it a little too long, but by the time the next game rolls around it's just a meta joke.

I confess, the only rebuttal I can give against the idea of me being a GF is to say I'm not. I will say against Garou that Monk was more uncontrolled in the emotions of his posts, but I feel like I was just as vehement.

Now that it's brought up, I'm sad we didn't actually get to take down scum together. I will avenge you, Monk!!!
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Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Sentran]

Jedo, I understand your comment about you being town IF Zag is town, but as many have pointed out, that's only if you are not the GF and/or the results were not tainted. I'm still not convinced. Yes, I always go with a "guilty until proven innocent" mentality, and I'm prone to looking for unusual patterns and conspiracies.

By the same token, it would be easy for Zag as Mafia to claim anyone not on his team is "cleared". Considering the strange way it was worded, Jedo could even be an SK or neutral and Zag could be telling the truth.

I'm not convinced of anyone's innocence yet (aside from my own). Still looking through the cobwebs for patterns.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Amb]