Clint Eastwood Mafia Game Over - Town Wins

[The Great Crep'er]

[Raearia]

I am not a hater! I just think your words were confusing!
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10289 is the end!

[3iff]

MNO is too quiet for my liking.

Unvote. Vote MNOWAX

[Amb]

[Undercover Monk]

I will happily explain as it seems my (and jedo's) plan is having an effect. We both brought up several games ago that a disturbing trend was happening day1. person A would be bandwaggoned...they would claim....wagon falls apart....person B is bandwagonned....they claim.....wagon falls apart....ect. With the result being we end day 1 on page 12 with our doc, cop, vig and who knows what else revealed to the scum and that makes it very hard for town to win or even to do a readthrough. So both jedo and I have made it a policy to not claim on day 1 therefore depriving the mafia of any additional info and perhaps speeding day 1 along. If we could get everyone to agree to this sentiment then you guys wouldnt have to complain about reading through 15 pages of useless day 1 drivel

Someone is going to be lynched and it is rarely backed by a ton of evidence just because on day 1 we dont know anything. Look at last game Zag was nearly lynched because he took one sentence in jedos opening post to build a wagon on. The evidence against Zag was basically that that behavior was scummy. Zag ended up town and we will see about jedo eventually but the point is on day the lynchee is usually decided upon a whim not hard evidence so why even try to claim.
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The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Sentran]

I'm not trying to follow Jedo and UM (because I'm frequently at odds with one or both of them), but on this point I agree. Claiming on day 1 only gives ammo to the Mafia, making it harder for the town to win. I also acknowledge that this is a change from my previous opinion that a player may claim whenever they like. I still believe that point as well, but I don't think day 1 is the proper time.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[The Great Crep'er]

[Zag]

[Amb]

[The Great Crep'er]

[Zag]

Ahh. Now THIS is something I can get behind. You're afraid to take any sort of stance at all, because you're afraid that you'll be seen as scummy. A scum tell if ever I saw one.

Vote: Amb

Seriously, I don't really think it is much of one. In fact, I mostly want to vote in order to discourage the whole tactic. While it is very likely just genuine frustration with having been accused early in other games. Believe me, after that last game I totally understand. But it is also a good scum tactic, so I don't want it becoming an acceptable ploy. And maybe it indicates Amb-scum. It's the scummiest thing I've seen so far this game.

[Amb]

You miss my point though. My point is that by using his post as he did, it leaves whoever he targets with it with a tarnish that is actually meaningless. I'll take a stance when I need to take a stance, but I don't want to go rabid on tenuous connections.

[Jedo the Jedi]

I don't think it's an out-and-out scum tell (considering the last game), but I think it's one of those things worth keeping an eye on.

More raekuul votes? The sooner we can get him close to lynch, the sooner the town can dissolve his wagon and start another, slightly more legitimate one. Might as well speed the process along, no?
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Amb]

[3iff]

I think "taking the 5th" means "the right to say nothing to incriminate yourself" but as I'm not American either I'm not 100% sure...and I'm NOT going to google it (something I normally do...)

There are an awful lot of players around here not playing. The last post from a non-regular is a couple of days ago. Methinks they are trying to stay out of the light.

Unvote: Vote spyrl just to shake the tree a bit.

[Raearia]

I see the whole conversation as pointless. Day one, as far as I can tell, starts with random voting and silly reasoning (like my own vote on TCG because of his slang talk).

Any form of trying to rationalize or justify one direction or the other gets you on most everyone's radar.

Here is how I see Day one:

Person one "I like cake."
Person two " Me as well, you must be town"
Person three "I like cake too!"
Person two " OMG YOU USED AN EXCLAMATION THAT'S A SCUM TELL!!" /start bandwagon.

So why are we having this conversation that will just end up going in circles and blown tempers?
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10289 is the end!

[Dragon Phoenix]

[Sentran]

Now lurker lynching is something I can get behind.
Vote: esme
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Garou_Kinfolk]

unvote. Vote: 3iff

You don't just vote for a mans wife and expect to get away with it during RVS.
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Most posts made from my phone.

[spyrl]

Apparently I'm a tree now? At least tell me if I'm a deciduous one or not so I can make my case on why I am, most assuredly, a human and a mammal. *le sigh* At least TGC stopped using infernal language and is back to using more civilized words.

[Zag]

[Undercover Monk]

[quote="Zag"]

[Dragon Phoenix]

Next lurker:

unvote spyrl
vote: esme
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My photography:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/artrock2006/

[Jedo the Jedi]

[spyrl]

[Zag]

[The Great Crep'er]

[Amb]

Unvote JustInCase; Vote TGC

You want senseless beating of a dead horse? That can be arranged. You be the horse

[Sentran]

Conversation appears to have ground to a complete halt. I understand natural lulls during weekends, but no posts at all in a game this size is odd to me. Are people running out of things to say now that the witty banter has ceased?
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Dragon Phoenix]

It is day one - always difficult. Lurker hunting is a good way to break the deadlock. A lurker had statistically just as much chance at being scum than anyone else, and their lack of posting makes it impossible to get a read on them.

The lack of willingness of players to join me on the esme vote is noted. I'd expect one or two scumbags by now to join this legit wagon - unless she is scum.
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My photography:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/artrock2006/

[Zag]

I think that some of the argument for lurker lynching goes away since we tend to replace people who have dropped out. However, it is still worthwhile putting some pressure on them, just in case they are intentionally lurking in order to avoid detection.

Also, I never did think much of my vote on Amb. It was more of a "I think everyone should vote, so I should, too." and not because I felt I had found something important.

unvote Amb; vote esme

[Dragon Phoenix]

Lovely. One scum caught.

Unvote esme
Vote Zag
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My photography:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/artrock2006/

[esme]

Hmm, in the good old times, when I was active here, the first day went more like "first bandwagon, claim, disband bandwagon, second bandwagon, claim, lynch".

I am suspicious of the "we won't claim on the first day whatever happens" tactics. That is a tactic that only benefits the players concerned in the games that they are scum, but not the town. (Just as always claiming would.) The fact that there are no clear behavioural rules is the only thing that leaves wiggle room for errors of the scum.

I will reconsider my vote, but I would really like a vote-count first. Wasn't there a script in the good old times that did vote-counts?
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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.

[Amb]

Unvote; Vote Zag

Whatever happens, we need to get some traction. The game is at risk of stalling.

[Jedo the Jedi]

It seems the raekuul wagon is dissolving, so I have been somewhat lazy waiting for a vote count to tell me which is the leading wagon.

On the face of your theory, esme, that does seem to be a reasonable argument. The problem I have with believing any claim on Day 1 is scum are going to lie and have a (hopefully) good-sounding claim too, so how are you going to differentiate between a legit claim and a fake claim on Day 1? I don't see any sense in giving the scum more information (they'll be the ones who know which are real and fake) than they already have.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Amb]

[Amb]

See to me, that seems like a Freudian slip...

Unvote; Vote Jedo The Jedi pending some decent backpedalling.

[Jedo the Jedi]

I meant that in the sense that they wouldn't be a very good scum unless they make a good claim; in which case I suppose town would catch them easily and this would be a point in favor of esme's perspective. Looking back though, I see the word I was really meaning was "theoretically." The point being, any claim somebody makes (town or scum) should reasonably sound like a town role, and it still means only the scum are benefiting from the extra knowledge.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Zag]

Well, esme has replied, and lurking was my only reason for voting.
unvote esme

[Zag]