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Clint Eastwood Mafia Game Over - Town Wins
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esme
^^^^-- is female! Get the pronouns right



PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: 241 Reply with quote

MNOWAX wrote:
Since someone did vote for me I'm claiming.

I'm the Town Roleblocker.


"The" ? Can you elaborate?

Sniklac16 wrote:

I apologize, I'll try to do more votes counts. However if I do one vote count on one page and there was only a change or 2 on the next, I don't find it necessary to do another one.


A vote count at the beginning of each page is the bare minimum, I think that it is usually too little, it should be one per page, but also one per x vote changes and one per x days. Actually, you should *especially* make a vote count when there are no changes. It is practically zero work for you and it saves everyone scanning a page first for the non-existent vote count and then for the non-existent vote changes.

This is the number 1 measure to make the game progress faster. I would understand if you don't want to give a vote count because it is a hassle for you, but saying that you do not give a new vote count because it is too little work is not understandable to me.
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3iff
very unbifflike



PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:50 pm    Post subject: 242 Reply with quote

I think a vote update near the top of each page is sufficient. It seems to be the style here (GL)...plus an occasional update if requested by players, especially if a lot of vote changing is going on.

It's entirely up to you though.


Re MNO.
I think it would be reasonable to think there would at most be just one town roleblocker. So calling himself "the" town roleblocker would be ok. Whether he really IS the town roleblocker is a completely different question.
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esme
^^^^-- is female! Get the pronouns right



PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:19 pm    Post subject: 243 Reply with quote

3iff wrote:

Re MNO.
I think it would be reasonable to think there would at most be just one town roleblocker. So calling himself "the" town roleblocker would be ok. Whether he really IS the town roleblocker is a completely different question.


And why do you defend MNO instead of waiting for his own answer?
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MNOWAX
0.999... of a Troll



PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:04 pm    Post subject: 244 Reply with quote

3iff is right, although I do think it is interesting that he spoke for me. If there is more than one town Roleblocker, I think they'd be lying.

3iff wrote:
For MNO to claim town roleblocker this early and with so little pressure smacks of...desperation?


Except I have been known to do this many times in the past, with evel less pressure.
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Sniklac16
Spaciest of aides



PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:27 pm    Post subject: 245 Reply with quote

esme wrote:
A vote count at the beginning of each page is the bare minimum, I think that it is usually too little, it should be one per page, but also one per x vote changes and one per x days. Actually, you should *especially* make a vote count when there are no changes. It is practically zero work for you and it saves everyone scanning a page first for the non-existent vote count and then for the non-existent vote changes


I understand what you are saying, however I am the mod here and I will post vote counts as I see fit. I'll do one as much as I can but I do have a lot going on between school, work, birthing class, and basically doing everything around the house because my fiance is 8 months pregnant. So again I'll do one as much as I can when I see fit.
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3iff
very unbifflike



PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject: 246 Reply with quote

Ah, esme, I see what you mean. I might have inadvertently given him a 'way out' had he needed it. Perhaps I should have waited for his response.

However, I was the first to vote for MNO, that's where my vote remains...and I'm happy to have it there.

BTW, I'm NOT speaking for MNO...
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.



PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:51 pm    Post subject: 247 Reply with quote

I'm a small bit concerned with 3iff's flip flop statement: "Slightly townish or scumish: Amb, Dragon Phoenix ". Not enough to vote, or even FOS, but it was enough to go "Huh?". If his read is neutral, why doesn't he say so?
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Garou_Kinfolk
Daedalian Member



PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:29 pm    Post subject: 248 Reply with quote

3iff: I asked the mod about replacements publicly because that's how I'm used to asking the mod questions unless it is about my role. I asked the mod about replacements in general because of all of the replacements we had in the Game of Thrones game and everything that happened there. No offense to Sentran. When people have to be replaced it makes it harder on everyone.

My lunch is over now. Have to get back to work.
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Garou_Kinfolk
Daedalian Member



PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:48 pm    Post subject: 249 Reply with quote

@3iff: This is the only criticism I can find in the two poses you reference.

Garou_Kinfolk wrote:
I'm actually a little surprised at Jedo for his last 2 posts. The differences between the two didn't hit me at first, but reading them a couple of times I had thought that he didn't post two questions to the mod that should have been asked before voting MNOWAX.


The reason for the criticism at all is because Jedo has so much experience that, imho, he should have asked for the prod before he voted. In my experience it's what you do to inactive players first. Prod, then replace, if that isn't an option, then either lynch or mod kill. The reason why the prod request was public is because I've only even seen prods requested in the public forum. I've never heard of a mod asking players to pm them prod requests. Saying I might have had some anterior motive doesn't win you town points in my book.
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training



PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:16 am    Post subject: 250 Reply with quote

I will say I'm intrigued that Amb didn't say anything about the potential "slip" of MNO saying "the" town roleblocker. I mean, I didn't notice it, but that seems like the sort of thing Amb gravitates toward. Anyway, nothing really suspicious about it (for now), but I'm feeling a little prejudiced.
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine



PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:29 am    Post subject: 251 Reply with quote

Right, because there's such a strong similarity between using the article "the" vs. the article "a", and hoping that the Mafia have decent fake claims on day 1. [/sarcasm]
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3iff
very unbifflike



PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:07 am    Post subject: 252 Reply with quote

Amb wrote:
I'm a small bit concerned with 3iff's flip flop statement: "Slightly townish or scumish: Amb, Dragon Phoenix ". Not enough to vote, or even FOS, but it was enough to go "Huh?". If his read is neutral, why doesn't he say so?

It's one of the problems I have when I'm alone in the forum (because of timezones)...I yap too much. I see what you mean about my comment...
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Sniklac16
Spaciest of aides



PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:13 pm    Post subject: 253 Reply with quote

SOFT DEADLINE SUNDAY NOVEMBER 18

vote count will be coming later today when I have more time
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.



PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:35 pm    Post subject: 254 Reply with quote

Quote:
I will say I'm intrigued that Amb didn't say anything about the potential "slip" of MNO saying "the" town roleblocker


WTF? MNO's statement is either an outright lie, or the complete truth. That is in no way a Freudian slip.
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training



PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:57 pm    Post subject: 255 Reply with quote

What I understand you to be saying is that I (a scum in your view) let my subconscious desire for the scum to have good roleclaims out unexpectedly. I therefore am scum for letting my "true thoughts" come out. MNO, on the other hand, says he is "the town roleblocker" and it is not a slip of any kind? I would say this is some sort of overcompensation. Why didn't he just say "roleblocker"? I mean, he wouldn't say "the town cop," would he? We would already assume he is town, never mind that he shouldn't know if he is the only one. It's like he wants to reinforce that he is not "the scum roleblocker" when in reality we are trying to decide that very thing: whether he is scum or town.

So, I didn't call it a "Freudian" slip on purpose (something which is often used incorrectly). However, I think if you are being equitable and scrutinizing everybody's posts to find scum, this is something you would acknowledge as a mistake.

(And just to hone your language, I don't understand the distinction you are making about MNO's statement versus mine. First, MNO's claim could be a partial truth if he was a scum roleblocker, so it isn't necessarily black-and-white like you claim. Second, if I'm town making the statement I did, it would be the truth because I tell the truth as town. If I'm scum making the same statement, it's truth that came out against my intentions. Therefore, my statement would be true either way, so I'm not really sure what delineation you are trying to draw.)
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.



PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:03 pm    Post subject: 256 Reply with quote

Quote:
MNO's claim could be a partial truth if he was a scum roleblocker


That would still be an outright lie.

Eitherway, do you see anyone other than Sentran following me? I don't think you have anything to worry about. So why are you panicking so much? I want to move on from this argument, and start looking at other players - but if you insist on bringing it to the floor again, all that is going to result is either you or me being lynched. And no one else will be coming under pressure. And even if you were a Godfather of the mafia and we got really really lucky, day 2 wouldn't be much more than a repeat of day 1 in terms of usefulness. So can we drop this whole argument for now? I'm sure we can repeat it later if the need arises.

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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training



PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:27 pm    Post subject: 257 Reply with quote

Apparently we have different definitions of "outright lies."

I don't know what you think I am "bringing up again." Right now, I'm trying to understand what you see as the difference between MNO's "slip" and mine. It really has less to do with me and more to do with you. I'm currently somewhat scrutinizing your play and analyzing what I see as an omission. There's nothing panicky about this (unless you want to show me where it is), so I'm not sure why you have characterized it as such.
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Zag
Tired of his old title



PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:52 pm    Post subject: 258 Reply with quote

Sorry, I've only been skimming, because I've been busy and it seems like a lot of bickering, which I hate.

Let me see if I understand. MNO claimed to be "the town roleblocker" and some people are claiming this is a slip of some kind? Umm, why, exactly?

@Jedo, of course one wouldn't claim to be a "town cop" because cop implies town -- that is, "scum cop" makes no sense. However, roleblocker does not imply town, as we learned last game (and as we knew already, or should have). So it makes perfect sense to claim "town roleblocker," and doesn't seem to me to be unnecessarily emphasizing anything.

@whoever complained of the use of "the" vs. "a": Seriously? I'm pretty sure that's just a regional thing. My wife (of 28 years, now) still says, "your shower" or "my shower" when she refers to taking a shower, and it still seems odd to me. I really don't see reading anything into it.

On the other hand, MNO is still pretty high on my FOS list for the whole forgetting (claiming to forget) that he is in this game at all. Still under DP, however, who has worked, I see, at staying under the radar since being accused. How's THAT for spin? Enthusiastic Grin)

(Since I'm listing my opinions, I might as well finish.) I see Jedo as townish, though he really is a good enough player to have fooled me. I don't have any significant reads on anyone else. (I always find Amb's obsessing over something I think is nothing to be scummy, and I have been wrong the last few times I have thought so. Therefore, I have specifically discounted it in this case.)
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.



PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:55 pm    Post subject: 259 Reply with quote

So if I tell you a half truth (eg I am male and live in Australia) then you won't be angry to discover that I partly lied? If MNO was lying about being a roleblocker, but telling the truth about being town - guess what? We (and you) would still lynch him. And it would be his own fault.

As far as I am concerned MNO didn't make a slip. He either told the complete truth or he lied. There is no middle ground. And time will prove his role.

In either case: I think the mafia in all probability are just sitting in the background snickering hoping we just keep at it. We both will end up dead without them ever needing to kill either of us.
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Zag
Tired of his old title



PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:02 pm    Post subject: 260 Reply with quote

Oh, yeah. I meant to say that I agree with Amb about MNO possibly lying. If he, having claimed "town roleblocker" is not town or not roleblocker, he has lied and deserves to be strung up. Of course, why would a town-MNO lie about being a roleblocker?
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training



PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:04 pm    Post subject: 261 Reply with quote

Zag wrote:
@Jedo, of course one wouldn't claim to be a "town cop" because cop implies town -- that is, "scum cop" makes no sense. However, roleblocker does not imply town, as we learned last game (and as we knew already, or should have). So it makes perfect sense to claim "town roleblocker," and doesn't seem to me to be unnecessarily emphasizing anything.

Sure there can be a scum and town roleblocker, but nobody is going to claim to be scum anything. Therefore, the default assumption is the claimant wants to be considered town. Ultimately though, this distinction is for the collective town to decide, so why bother putting the distinction in there? I say it's only to get it more embedded in the minds of the readers that he is town.
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Sniklac16
Spaciest of aides



PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:35 pm    Post subject: 262 Reply with quote

VOTE COUNT

MNOWAX (5) - 3iff, spyrl, Jedo the Jedi, Leonidas, Raearia
Jedo the Jedi (3) - Sentran, MNOWAX, Garou_Kinfolk
Zag (1) - Dragon Phoenix
Sentran (1) - esme
Dragon Phoenix (1) - Zag
Amb (1) - the great crep'er

not voting: Amb, raekuul, Undercover Monk
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine



PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:29 pm    Post subject: 263 Reply with quote

Amb wrote:
Eitherway, do you see anyone other than Sentran following me? I don't think you have anything to worry about.

I've noticed that scum tend to defend themselves more vehemently than town. As such, even if I am the only vote on him, my vote will remain on Jedo until a greater scumtell presents itself.

As for MNO, I've already stated that I would not be against his lynch. I just need a bit more reason for why. The argument, as I understand it, is that he joined the game, confirmed, then conveniently "forgot" that he was playing. It does seem a bit improbable, but not impossible. Is there anything else that I'm missing? I'm not considering Jedo's read on MNO's claim as a tell.
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.



PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject: 264 Reply with quote

If I come in and see MNO on L-1, I will hammer.

I'm forewarning you all now, because given the chance to hammer in mafia I will always hammer. I have no read on MNO whatsoever, and could as equally believe him as disbelieve him.

(And if MNO is a roleblocker, he will probably target important pro-town roles by mistake anyway...)
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Raearia
Daedalian Member



PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:16 am    Post subject: 265 Reply with quote

For me an outright lie is saying something that has no truth. A partial lie is still a lie, but also tells a partial truth.

MNO’s threat was pretty ridiculous to begin with and I still think saying “I forgot” is a pretty flimsy excuse and going on the defensive so quick rather than give solid reasons was one of two reasons I voted and will keep my vote on MNO.

I also have seen MNO take pretty big risks. GoT: MNO was scum and he took the risk with his slip in that game tying Zag to him (I think it was Zag if I remember it correctly),The robot mafia MNO was scum as well and took a pretty big risk coming out to the town saying he was the mafia traitor in the gamble that we townies would oust the other mafia so he could solo win.So far my experience with MNO is he takes risks as scum, and his claim made me think of his previous games he took a gamble on which was the other reason I voted for him.

If his claim is true then he did not do us townies any favors by giving it away so thoughtlessly.
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MNOWAX
0.999... of a Troll



PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:26 am    Post subject: 266 Reply with quote

A lot of talk in here, but no action.

I really do believe Jedo is scum here. The fact that I came into this game late shouldn't mean anything, and yet it has become the sole reason for lynching me.

There HAS to be scum on my wagon for me to be the leading lynch candidate.
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Raearia
Daedalian Member



PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:49 am    Post subject: 267 Reply with quote

MNOWAX wrote:
The fact that I came into this game late shouldn't mean anything, and yet it has become the sole reason for lynching me.

There HAS to be scum on my wagon for me to be the leading lynch candidate.


It isn't that you were late coming into the game, it was the inconsistencies in your posts that has you in the hot seat. You can try to brush it off as people gunning for you for being late, but the reality of our posts say differently.

To recap what has been said:

You "forgot" you were in this game even though you confirmed and posted twice more AFTER confirmation yet before the official start of the game, Oct 26th. (Do you have notifications on? It might help if you really did forget in the future)

You posted on Oct 24th you would not have access Thursday to Saturday but then had to cancel your plans due to the Hurricane and were able to post repeatedly in other threads, up until Nov 9th when you started posting in this game.

You were actively watching another ongoing game yet didn't look in on this one.

Did I forget anything else people have said? I am sure I did..

Is the horse dead yet or do we need to beat it a few more times that your "forgetting" is suspect.
(hope you didn't get to much damage btw!)
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.



PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:01 am    Post subject: 268 Reply with quote

Quote:

You "forgot" you were in this game even though you confirmed and posted twice more AFTER confirmation yet before the official start of the game, Oct 26th. (Do you have notifications on? It might help if you really did forget in the future)

You posted on Oct 24th you would not have access Thursday to Saturday but then had to cancel your plans due to the Hurricane and were able to post repeatedly in other threads, up until Nov 9th when you started posting in this game.

You were actively watching another ongoing game yet didn't look in on this one.

Far be it from me to defend MNO, but actually none of this stuff leans towards scum or town.
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spyrl
Daedalian Member



PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:15 am    Post subject: 269 Reply with quote

3iff wrote:
spyrl:
Post220
Quote:
However, I see this claim almost as if MNO really doesn't want to play (he said he had intended to take a break) and is just looking for a quick lynch or NK as way out.

I can't believe that someone of the calibre of MNO would deliberately try and get himself lynched because he doesn't want to play a game.
I see it rather like this, MNO is known for wild gambits, most often in my experience, when he's scum. He's been absent from the game and wanted a break, so if the gambit fails, he gets a break, if it doesn't fail, then he's still alive to play. I do find it interesting that in the GoT game, where he was scum, he said "I'm NOT the doc" (emphasis mine). Coincidence?

I don't see how can anyone be so confident about MNOs statement on being "the town roleblocker" as either 100% true, or 100% false. Someone saying that something is so defined makes me wonder, what do they know that the rest of us don't?

MNOWAX wrote:
The fact that I came into this game late shouldn't mean anything, and yet it has become the sole reason for lynching me.
Considering Raearia posted just prior to you listing two other reasons for voting for you? Let me add a few others: Your return to the game is somewhat antagonistic. You didn't exactly make your return believable (if you had mentioned, "oh crap, I forgot that I had posted and confirmed earlier" I would have found your "resurrection" to be more convincing, but instead, you denied even knowing you were in the game). You bait people into not voting for you with an early claim promise/threat.
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Raearia
Daedalian Member



PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:16 am    Post subject: 270 Reply with quote

So the possibility that he lied about his role is suspect but the possibility that he lied about forgetting and/or was just riding out as a lurker as long as possible is not?

I mean I could be wrong in how I interpreted what others have said, but I feel his actions thus far regarding his forgetting is scummy. After all this is about finding things we view as scummy is it not? You say it's not I say it is, each view is a matter of opinion and interpretation.

My view on it like I have already stated is he is scum.
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine



PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:23 am    Post subject: 271 Reply with quote

Ok, Raearia has made some solid points about why MNO feels scummy. It motivated me to look at the meta about his "forgetting", and here's what I found.

Quote:
Secret Theme Mafia official game start: Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:14 pm

Quote:
MNO's last post in the HaV Mafia game: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:05 am

Quote:
MNO's first post in this game after game start: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:36 pm

Now every time you log in to post (which you must do in order to post to a Mafia thread), it flags the threads that have new messages. In addition to that, they bump to the top of the thread list (after the stickies). That means that in order to forget, he also had to ignore the fact that the thread had been bumped up higher in priority than the thread in which he was posting. Ladies and gentlemen, I am now in the court of believing that the oversight was intentional.

Unvote, Vote: MNOWAX

I realize that some people do not like the meta approach to this game, but I still believe that you should use every resource available to you.
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training



PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:24 am    Post subject: 272 Reply with quote

The things Raearia listed don't lean one way or the other, but when asked about them, MNO's reactions were more scum than town. I'm certain this has been pointed out. Doing a quick look through the review pane...
Raearia wrote:
...going on the defensive so quick rather than give solid reasons...


And MNO, your melodrama certainly doesn't help the impression. If you are town, I would consider that. There doesn't "have" to be scum on your wagon because we lynched people in GoT twice without any mafia voting the lynchee. That takes skill.
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.



PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:56 am    Post subject: 273 Reply with quote

Vote Sentran
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.



PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:58 am    Post subject: 274 Reply with quote

And if you want a reason - he now has two bandwagon follows to his name - the latter of which being very flimsy.
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training



PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:14 am    Post subject: 275 Reply with quote

Now, Amb, you can do better than that. Sentran was the second vote on me after you posted the Freudian slip thing, hardly a bandwagon. If anything, he seems to be swayed easily, but that doesn't seem any worse than the plethora of vote switching DP did. Why are you targeting certain people for things, but not batting an eye at others who do something similar?

I will go ahead and mention that I think Monk's period of leeway is up. FOS: Monk To be fair though, there are a number of people who have been absent, "sitting in the background snickering" as it were. I've never been much for lurker crusades, especially when I think there is something perfectly good in front of us, but I think there are multiple people worthy of prods or being kept in the back of the mind.
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Dragon Phoenix
Judge Doom



PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:43 am    Post subject: 276 Reply with quote

Amb wrote:
And if you want a reason - he now has two bandwagon follows to his name - the latter of which being very flimsy.


Well, we can not get to a lynch without bandwagonning, and day one hardly has solid reasoning, so this is a non-argument in my book.
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine



PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:10 am    Post subject: 277 Reply with quote

So far, all this game has shown is that if you claim nothing, you will be ignored. If, however, you state your intentions and patterns in advance, then follow them, you will be looked at as scum. This mentality allows scum to hide far too easily.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland
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3iff
very unbifflike



PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:13 am    Post subject: 278 Reply with quote

Sentran wrote:
So far, all this game has shown is that if you claim nothing, you will be ignored. If, however, you state your intentions and patterns in advance, then follow them, you will be looked at as scum. This mentality allows scum to hide far too easily.

Horribly true. Those who speak up are usually mercilessly torn to shreds while the players who say nothing (and there's quite a few here) are ignored.
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MNOWAX
0.999... of a Troll



PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:53 pm    Post subject: 279 Reply with quote

Sentran wrote:
Ok, Raearia has made some solid points about why MNO feels scummy. It motivated me to look at the meta about his "forgetting", and here's what I found.

Quote:
Secret Theme Mafia official game start: Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:14 pm

Quote:
MNO's last post in the HaV Mafia game: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:05 am

Quote:
MNO's first post in this game after game start: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:36 pm

Now every time you log in to post (which you must do in order to post to a Mafia thread), it flags the threads that have new messages. In addition to that, they bump to the top of the thread list (after the stickies). That means that in order to forget, he also had to ignore the fact that the thread had been bumped up higher in priority than the thread in which he was posting. Ladies and gentlemen, I am now in the court of believing that the oversight was intentional.

Unvote, Vote: MNOWAX

I realize that some people do not like the meta approach to this game, but I still believe that you should use every resource available to you.


First it doesn't matter if it started and was higher on the list, I didn't think I was IN the game.

Second I don't go into the forums as such i use the " vew new posts" button, then choose what I want to read as such.

lastly, and this is the last time I am goign to defend myself on this: You guys are lynching me on the simple fact that I wasn't in the thread. I have said this time and again, I wasn't planning on being in this game: I may have confirmed but I hadn't posted in this thread for nearly 10 days before I was prodded. I had many (outside mafia) commitments, which is why i posted in the V/LA thread.

Raearia, to insinuate that I'm firebombing myself so I could get a break is ludicrous, and honestly a little offensive. If I really wanted out, I would have asked for a replacement.

So lynch me if you must, but keep in mind you are doing it for minor and non-mafia reasons. There is nothing I have done other than possibly claim early ( which is something I've been known to do many times, town or otherwise) that points to me as scum.

However Jedo has done a load of things, including start this pointless and trivial wagon and made his now infamous slip-up. Lynch him.

Confirm Vote: Jedo
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Undercover Monk
Professor Chaos



PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:01 pm    Post subject: 280 Reply with quote

lost my job this week dealing with some real life issues revolving around that dont have a real grip on the situation but I find sentrans not a hammer vote to be particularly damning. I think Amb laid a brilliant trap and caught himself a scum. Vote: Sentran
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