Clint Eastwood Mafia Game Over - Town Wins

[3iff]

spyrl: I'm not 'forgetting' that you're in the game...nothing more, for now. It does feel as if you are protesting too much though.

Garou: I realise I'm finding myself agreeing with the stance that Jedo is taking on many incidents and I know that my public agreeing with him might bring suspicion on me/us...but I know I'm town. That doesn't make Jedo confirmed town or confirmed mafia...I still don't know which side Jedo is on as yet.

Sentran: Re the theme. I immediately thought of Clint Eastwood but thought the actual theme would have been more complex (like for Zag's secret theme game) otherwise I might have made a guess myself...bit late now...and I'm NOT defending Jedo by saying that. I just think that from my view, just knowing my role name, I could have made a correct guess.

MOD: could we have a vote update please?

[Dragon Phoenix]

[raekuul]

I will say this right now - I am opposed to lurker lynching at this point in time for the simple fact that I have been lurking. I'm sure I'd be able to come up with a better reason for staying off of the lurker wagons in the future, but for right now it's purely self-preservation (as there's really nothing stopping you all from leading a lurker lynch on me).

As has been noted, we have an overabundance of lurking players this game. Twelve players, seven to lynch, six lurkers by post count (going by Jedo's list back in post 307), four lurkers by date (again, going by 307).

I did not vote yesterday primarily because the basis for voting MNO was largely the fact that he forgot (whether truthfully or not) that he was playing this game. If you ask me, the town got lucky yesterday - MNO could have just as easily been the cop or something useful, and we would have lynched him under the Lynch All Liars rule because of his claim of 'forgetting'. I was watching the game, and I honestly saw no reason to add my vote to the pile - I can see now that such thinking was a mistake, as he did get lynched and now I look like quite the lurking scumbag.

If you ask me, you're all looking at just the numbers still and not the content as far as lurking goes. I have had zero content in the game until now; the only thing that's really kept me out of the eyes of the lurklynchers is the fact that there are/were those who have had fewer posts than I had.

More hopefully later

[3iff]

The point with lurkers (those wilfully not posting anything) is that IF they're town, they're not helping the town cause. I can understand mafia not wishing to get embroiled in a discussion. I know too that we can often have town vs town...it's easy to do.

All I can ask is that saying something, showing you're still here and taking some interest in the game that you were eager to join, then the better for weeding out the mafia.

That is not directed at anyone in particular...before I get accused of picking on people...

[Garou_Kinfolk]

[jadesmar]

I suppose I should stop doing mystery hunts and car shopping and start paying attention to this game.

[Sentran]

[jadesmar]

[Sentran]

[spyrl]

3iff, I'm not protesting anything, just trying to understand your terminology and make sure I understand what it is you're talking about. Your post was ambiguous enough that I wanted to know what it was you had lumped me into with others.

I want to hear from Leonidas as he's currently posted next to nothing this game. As such I am going to vote: Leonidas until I see something from him that's meaningful/contributing.
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[Dragon Phoenix]

[Sentran]

Vote: Dragon Phoenix
Don't ever accuse me of not reading posts.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Dragon Phoenix]

I said reading, not glancing. You cannot actually read my post and come up with the summary of it that you did.
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[jadesmar]

[Sniklac16]

I'll post vote count asap
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[Sentran]

[Sniklac16]

VOTE COUNT


esme (3) - Jedo the Jedi, 3iff, Dragon Phoenix
Sentran (1) - Garou_Kinfolk
Leonidas (1) - spyrl
Dragon Phoenix (1) - Sentran

not voting - jadesmar, Raearia, Leonidas, Raekuul, Undercover Monk, esme
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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

[jadesmar]

[Dragon Phoenix]

It's amazing Sentran how in that whole flood of words you still miss the point of my recent post, as short as it was.

Yesterday's lurker hunt of esme, which you started yourself and which I joined, was a perfectly valid one. IF esme is town, scum could easily jump on the wagon because this is a wagon that made sense at the time. The Zag story you bring up is neither here nor there, because that happened later, and I accused him of being scum based on the wording, not the vote, as I explained. Yes, I was wrong about Zag. That happens.

Now, since this esme wagon did not take off in that time period yesterday, I think it is not unlikely that she is actually scum and that therefore there were no scum willing to join.

This latter observation is something that still stands one day later, and that is why I am voting esme. Not because she lurks, but because of this failure to get the wagon going yesterday.
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[Sniklac16]

Sorry jadesmar, I forgot to make the change in my notebook.
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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

[Sentran]

[Sentran]

One more thing, in response to DP. You failed to get ANYONE to join your wagon save Zag, who flipped town. That means that not only did you fail to entice scum to join your wagon, but you failed to convince town that it was a good idea. Hence my dripping levels of sarcasm.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[spyrl]

DP, I have a bit of a problem with your "If A then B" reasoning. The biggest one is that I don't feel that a lack of people voting for someone is an indication that they are automatically scum. Look at the MNO lynch, I know that there had to have been at least one scum on there, it's just feels too statistically unlikely that there were zero scum on that lynch. Scum can, and will, bus their buddies, so what would stop them from merely voting for a buddy when they will also bus them? Either way there would still be a scum on the lynch.
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"And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head." Terry Pratchett, Maskerade
Discworld Mafia is here!

[spyrl]

I would also argue that tunnel vision only helps scum. By limiting ourselves to "If A, then ONLY B" types of hypotheses we increase our odds of town vs. town arguments.
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"And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head." Terry Pratchett, Maskerade
Discworld Mafia is here!

[jadesmar]

[raekuul]

From a tactical standpoint? I'd say the 2-L vote. Nice and inconspicuous during the early game. Then again, it's more a matter of opportunity - if I decide that I'm going to vote for someone, I'm not going to sit on the vote until X many votes are on the wagon so that I look 'less scummy'.

[raekuul]

...and there I go posting an incomplete thought again. Where I was intending to go with that is that it's a matter of timing. If a bandwagon has been building for two or three real-life days, then everyone's had an opportunity to hop on at their leisure. If it's a three-hour lynch, then it's a lot harder to say the Xth vote has to be scum.

[jadesmar]

[Dragon Phoenix]

[raekuul]

Jadesmar: You raise a good point in that his bandwagon was building for some time, but that doesn't change the fact that anybody on that bandwagon, regardless of voting position, could have been a mafia member. It's just appears to be easier to mislead lynch-position-based scumtells on a fast lynch because not everybody has the opportunity to jump on those wagons.

[jadesmar]

[raekuul]

Point, though that argument could easily be used to advocate random lynching and die-roll lynching.

[Leonidas]

(I'm still around. Too late to post something intelligent today as I am based in France, will do so tomorrow.)

[jadesmar]

[raekuul]

Never said it would be a good idea to do that, did I? :-p

[Raearia]

So I was making a wall of text and it didn't save. I am a little irritated about it. But I do wanna say DP you are being a bit aggressive and high handed thinking people are not reading your posts. You really had nothing of importance in your posts to warrant the kind of aggressive attitude you are displaying.

Your lack of content is not the fault of the reader. You stated you were voting for Esme for being a lurker and no one wanted or agreed to join your bandwagon, simple fact. Why are you being overly defensive and aggressive that your logic isn't being viewed as valid?

Your logic that if no one jumps on your bandwagon choice then your target is scum is pretty faulty. Picking a random lurker is one thing, trying to convince the rest of us that your target is scum because no one wanted to follow?

I didn't see a reason to vote for Esme when I was voting for TGC. I changed to MNO because I felt like MNO's actions were scummy and look he was a scum.

You could have picked any lurker to be your target and you most likely would have felt compelled to view that target as scum if no one followed.

@ Spyrl/Raekuul/Jadesmar: I agree that the possibility of someone on the MNO lynch could have been scum, but how exactly is that going to help us townies in getting a successful lynch on a scum? We would have to look at those who voted for him and still have to guess at who may or may not be scum. So in the end how does debating the probability that someone was scum actually help us in determining who is scum?

I have a strong FOS on DP, but I am waiting on Leo and UM (hopefully though I know he is having real life difficulties) to chime in and hopefully get a better read on them.

I am still on the fence about Sentran Jedo and Garou. I feel like one of them are scum but trying to pinpoint which one I think it is is proving to be a challenge. Damn you Veteran players!

I still feel like there is not enough posting from others to warrant a vote.
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[jadesmar]

[Raearia]

I was referring to the votes on MNO that you guys have been talking about. What is the point in narrowing the list to who voted for MNO as our scum possibilities? It feels like the direction of your conversation was to produce the list of people who voted for MNO and ignore those who didn't.
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10289 is the end!

[jadesmar]

[Raearia]

It's ok thats why I was asking. Thanks for clearing that up
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