The Professor

[Werebear]

ROFL. First - if shaking hands with you means you're trying to pick me up, then you have a problem... and I have a problem too.

Second - who says 5 and 7 aren't women, and 6 and 8 aren't men? Though it was THEIR party, maybe they were just being deliberately rude to some.

Third - Hmm. Maybe The Professor can answer that.

Werebear

[Bobby]

The answer is 4. The professor received 9 different answers because there are 9 other people he asked, u guys are on the wrong track.

[The Professor]

Gilligan was hot.

[dave10000]

BUT,

Suppose the nine different answers were:

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
I don't remember

That is certainly permitted by the wording of the problem. Indeed, I'd be surprised if everyone *did* remember, accurately, the number of handshakes they gave over the course of the evening.

How can we deduce from this that the wife shook the hands of 4 people?

[CrystyB]

VERY simple! we can't! =]

[Werebear]

You know something? When I read a puzzle, I kind of assume it's solvable. If you can twist the wording of a puzzle to make ether NO answer or LOTS of answers... how about taking the wording for how it's meant? Why make trouble for yourself by imagining that someone forgets how many handshakes they have, and take it for granted that this is a puzzle someone created for our enjoyment, and not a real life situation?

*bear shakes his head ruefully*

Werebear

[Zealot]

If they were adequate for real life situations, we wouldn't know what to name the threads in this forum.

[Gifthorse]

Refer to my new topic on this puzzle

[groza528]

wouldn't it make more sense to just continue in the same topic? In fact, I have half a mind to lock all the extraneous topics.

[MacadamiamaN]

YOU GUYS! How could you not know the answer! it's so obvious!!!
Here it is:

How many handshakes did the professor's wife receive?
NONE!
As only guests and hosts shook hands, the professor's wife was the HOSTESS.

[cha]

Hey Groza528 - too bad you didn't follow through on that idea before nutboy above came on board...

[CrystyB]

it's not too late now either! And for the sake of arguing, you could just lock them for start...

[This message has been edited by CrystyB (edited 05-26-2002 07:26 PM).]

[Werebear]

*Applauds DP*

Werebear

[CrystyB]

Yes, VWD indeed, DP! (although i always try crosslinking whereever possible and i would therefore like multiple to link here if the message is still editable, as i recall it to be)

Second, i was thinking about an easy explanation for the "can't remember" sideproblem. My first intuition, that she and the professor could've have x and (8-x), since the professor was not questioned and the other overlapping answer could be "can't remember", was wrong. But i soon found out the VERY simple solution i forespoke : swatch the P-W couple with another, which instead of answering "4" and "4", will answer "4" and "can't remember". So basically in this case we have no way of knowing whether professor's wife shook 0, 1, 2, ... or 8 hands.

[This message has been edited by CrystyB (edited 05-28-2002 09:59 AM).]

[gem90]

Grrr I'm angry. After all that signing in BS, I have no energy to type my wirry response. Sheesh.

[Werebear]

ROFL. "This message is here to tell you that there will be no message from me - wirry or otherwise"

And... if anyone says "I don't know" as a response, then the wife could have shaken any number of hands, 0-8. Not a terrific solution, if you ask me, which you didn't, so there.

Werebear

[MacadamiamaN]

Werebear, how can you disregard my answer? What support, other than insults, do you have against the answer that I gave?

[Werebear]

Hm. How could I disregard your answer.
First, most puzzles here are for SOLVING, not seeing if you can cleverly weasel your way out of an answer. Do you really believe that puzzle hinged on the word "hosts", instead of saying "host and hostess"? I mean, congratulations on being the first to pounce on a useless point, but it's just that - a useless point. Who says you can't call a woman a host of a party? Do most people bother to say "You've been a wonderful host and hostess", or just say "You were wonderful hosts"? If you're really going to exploit an error, exploit the fact that the puzzle never stated that the professor counted his own answer. It merely said he asked how many. Even this I consider a point that just wasn't clarified... not as a trick towards solving the puzzle.

Second, you felt the need to post the same message in six different places. Why? Is your answer that amazing? Were you afraid we wouldn't see it in the main answer thread?

Third, you felt the need to start a new thread when there were already several going... AND you'd posted in all the other threads already. Why not discuss it in the main thread... only? Didn't we have enough threads? Do you think we don't check for new answers?

The thing is, MacadamiamaN, if you had posted your answer only once, in the proper place, it would have been considered... probably noone else would decide it was the proper answer, but it wouldn't have met with exasperation. We want you to solve puzzles! We like hearing alternate ideas! We have been wrong before! Well, at least I have been wrong before. *Grin* Just please, assume we'll read about what you say, even if you only post it once.

I hope this makes things clearer.

Werebear

[MacadamiamaN]

Werebear, I still hold strong ground with this answer. As with most puzzles, there are always alternate answers, and this is simply one that cannot be discounted. Solving puzzles literally should never be avoided, and should always be included as an "alternate answer"!

I posted it in every thread because I had just registered to the Grey Labyrinth, and did not know exactly how everything worked. Seeing 5 or 6 active threads for The Professor, I thought posting this answer in every thread could not hurt. Apparently you got annoyed, and obviously I don't want you any closer to a heart attack then you already may be.

[Hitchhiker]

[CrystyB]

[Werebear]

Hey, Happy B-day, Mythunderstood Guy! Thank heavens I managed to keep from having a heart attack and keeling over on mine. You know, us bears turn psycho at the slightest provocation. #foams at the muzzle# *chuckle*

MacadamiamaN - I believe in the very first post I sent to you I congratulated you for finding a loophole first. I believe I even called you a genius for it. If you have read this thread, you will see that quite a few others have found alternate solutions, most of which happily proclaim the answer to be 0-8 inclusive. Assuming you have read this thread, can you tell me HONESTLY which solution you feel is the correct one - the one that requires deduction and reasoning and comes up with one definite solution, or the one that requires the puzzle has a trick word, and comes up with 9 answers?

And MY stupid not-so-valid point is that nowhere in the puzzle does it state that the professor knows how many handshakes he has... only that he asked the other guests. See how silly threads can become?

Werebear

[Gifthorse]

If the wife shakes 0, her husband(prof.) shakes at least

1,2,3,4,5,6,7 or ,8

And the reverse idea is also true, i think

Maybe the prof is just as important to solving this as his wife

[Werebear]

...well, Gifthorse, the solution most got is the prof and his wife shook 4 each.

Werebear

[Warren]

Has anyone considered that there are other ways to greet? The Professor and his wife are the hosts, which presumes that they know all the guests well. Without going into analysis, what about the scenario where the professor greets all the male guests with a handshake, and their partners with either a handshake or a kiss - it's not important! But his wife, who knows all the guests well, could greet ALL of the guests with a kiss. In fact, this is a likely scenario.

Now take the puzzle itself. There seems to be no clear answer. But the very fact that there is an answer implied means that there is some way of cutting through the ambiguity. All the couples are equal and interchangeable, except for the fact that the Professor and his wife have a guaranteed relationship with each and every guest. If the wife does not kiss every guest, then there is no answer. As there is to be an answer, then it looks like she must be the one who shakes hands with NONE of them - she kisses them instead!

[Werebear]

*shakes head* I give up.

Werebear

[Cadmium]

LOL @ Werebear!

Thanks for trying anyway. I had fun reading it.

------------------
People who think they know everything really annoy those of us that do.

[MacadamiamaN]

Warren has a point. This puzzle has many odd results depending on one's perspective

When do they end up posting the answer? Only when somebody gets it? After a default number of days/months/years/millenia? I'd like to see the *correct* answer before I retire.

[edited to add question]

[This message has been edited by MacadamiamaN (edited 05-29-2002 09:19 PM).]

[Gifthorse]

I tried to understand the solution that most people got but i can't get it. Can someon e explain it to me simply?


The 4 and 4 solution.

[CrystyB]

The explanation for the reduced situation of only 2 other couples invited is in replies #29 and #31. The proof it's good enough to be understood is in #32. But if you want, i'll do it again.

Macadam, usually the answer is the one involving logic, but if you'll be retiring soon enough (ow, why would you do that? ) you'll not be here when it's posted. There have been long periods of interregnum between the discovery of the correct answer and its posting (b/c a new puzzle has to be made up to replace this one), and sometimes the continuing discussion on this topic brought up interesting new stuff about the puzzle. Kind of what you were trying to do, so "Congrats!", but it wasn't quite there.

[waterdelph]

If the Professor got 9 _different_ answers (plus no couples shaking hands, and no shaking hands with yourself, obviously), then the nine people around him shook hands with 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 and 0 other people.

That leaves only the problem of finding out how many hands the professor's wife shook... Not many clues for me on that one.

As the hostess, the professor's wife might have shook hands with everyone who came in... except with the person who did not shake hands with anyone. So she would have shaken hands with 7 people.

[waterdelph]

I had to draw it out on paper (very visual mind), and have to revise my previous answer.
The Professor had 9 different answers (0 to 8 handshakes), and handshakes between spouses don't count, neither can you shake hands with yourself (rather obvious).
We don't know how many hands the Professor shook: at the most he gave 8 handshakes.
Supposing the Professor shook hands with every guest as they arrived, the only person who possibly could have received NO handshake is his own wife.

[Zealot]

There is a problem with that answer, too. The professor asked everyone but himself how many hands they had shaken. If his wife had shaken none and he had shaken eight, then the fact that he got 9 different answers no longer fits. He must have received 0-8 as the nine answers, as has been correctly stated.

That would mean that both the professor and one guest shook the hand of everyone but the professor's wife. The problem is then that no guest could have recieved only one handshake, they would have had to shake hands with both people who shook 8. The professor's wife therefore can't be the person who shook no hands.

[QuikSand]

Wow. I stopped by after originally getting my answer, and was glad to see that my 4/4 result as quickly confirmed.

On this subsequent visit, I saw the dozens of responses here, and just assumed that things had gotten off course and were well beyond the original puzzle. Little did I know, we're still haggling over the original puzzle. I'll try a slightly different articulation...

Well, as for semantics - it certainly seems most sensible to read the puzzle as follows:
-the professor gets accurate handshake counts from every other attendeed, including his wife
-the nine people he asks give him unique reponses between 0 and 8, inclusive

If that's the case, then the solution lies by thinking first about the person who shakes 8 hands. Since the puzzle clearly says that nobody shakes the hand of his/her spouse, that means that this person shakes the hand of every other person at the party. (10 total attendees, minus self, minus spouse, equals 8) Therefore, the only person who remains eligible to be the person who shook zero hands is that person's spouse. Therefore, the people who responded 8 and 0 are necessarily a couple.

Following similar logic, we end up pairing the 7/1 couple, then the 6/2 couple, and the 5/3 couple. Finally, that leaves the remaining couple who each shook 4 hands. Those are your five couples at the party.

Now, so far we have nothing about the professor's wife- just how the guests pair up (in terms of handshake numbers). That is, until we recall that the professor received unique responses from each guest. If he were part of any couple except the 4/4 couple, then he would have necessarily received answers of "4" and "4" from two different guests. Since that's not what happened, that means that the Professor himself had to be one of the 4/4 couple. And, therefore, so did his wife.

Ergo, the Professor's wife shook exactly 4 hands.

[Werebear]

I don't like it. It's too easy. I think the wording is misleading... I think the party guests did the "hot hot hot" dance, and therefore all their hands were shaking. I mean, the wording does say SHOOK HANDS and not HANDSHAKES, right? So everyone was shaking their hands with everyone else, while dancing, except the professor and his wife, who are stupid and don't know how to dance. Unique answers? What unique answers?

Q.E.D.

Werebear

[newbie1]

there are 9 diffrent answers and 8 posible people to shake hands with so the answers must be as follows

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

so i will call the poeple by their number and prof for the professor

starting from the top person 8 has to shake hands with everyone includeing the professor except of course for the person who shook 0 hands so the person who shook 0 hands came with number 8.

so
0 and 8 are together
and 1 has shaken 8s hand and is done

leaving 2 3 4 5 6 8 prof to shake 7s hand

1 being the only one not spoken for and not shaking 7s hand must be ith 7

so:
0 and 8 are together
1 and 7 are together
1 has shaken 8s hand and is done
2 has shaken 7 and 8s hands and is done

leaving 3 4 5 7 8 prof to shake 6s hand

now 2 is the only choice that could have come with 6 so:

0 and 8 are together
1 and 7 are together
2 and 6 are together
1 has shaken 8s hand and is done
2 has shaken 7 and 8s hands and is done
3 has shaken 6 7 and 8s hands and is done

leaving

4 6 7 8 and prof to shake number 5s hand

number 3 has to be with number 5....

0 and 8 are together
1 and 7 are together
2 and 6 are together
3 and 5 are together
1 has shaken 8s hand and is done
2 has shaken 7 and 8s hands and is done
3 has shaken 6 7 and 8s hands and is done
4 has shekne 5 6 7 8 hand and is done

4 is the only one that does not have a partner and has not shaken the professors hand so it must be the professors wife

4 is the answer.

[huskypup18]

I got 8 handshakes.Because you don't include the Professor and u don't shake 2 times.So, the wife would shake hands with 8 other people.

[Werebear]

It's a good thing I quit a few posts ago. *Grin*

Werebear

[Werebear]

Hm! Here's a question for you all. Let's just PRETEND the answer the professor came to was his wife shook 4 hands. OK? Now the question - one of the guests leaves a note behind saying "I know I told you how many hands I shook - but I also know I had the number wrong. Sorry!" Now the Professor's in a quandry. It could have been any guest - therefore it could have been any number from 0 to 8. What are the possibilities now? Is there a formula that the professor could use that would cover all the possibilies? (a few notes - the guest is SURE the number of handshakes he/she said was wrong. Therefore, there WILL be one repeat number, AND there will be one gap in the 0-9 sequence. ALSO, we have already said the professor himself shook 4 hands. This is a given.)

Any takers?

Werebear

[CrystyB]

Balloo darling, are you sure you read the topic? Your puzzle is exactly the "i don't remember" one, except now you have to have prof=wife=4. That's a little impossible.