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Legion
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 12:23 pm    Post subject: 41 No, that's not true. When a ring expands, the whole in the middle increses in diameter. To see a practical demonstration, just draw a ring in ome drawing package and resize it. The expanding ring used to be part of O'level physics practicals
Startpilot
Guest

 Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 12:33 pm    Post subject: 42 I hope the marbles don’t shrink to the original size when the water cools down during the flooding of the room.
SaberKitty
one can always be hopeful...

 Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 12:43 pm    Post subject: 43 Legion- is that true? i just assumed it would expandin both directions. why does it only expand in one?
Legion
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 12:46 pm    Post subject: 44 Think of the ring as a length. The circumference expands by a great deal more than the thickness.
Termital
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 5:13 pm    Post subject: 45 This is a ring only in the (irrelevant) topological sense though. (Even there, it's actually not, since it's got multiple holes) The usual config is of a series of holes around a circle circumference. See why you cannot expand each hole like that? [This message has been edited by Termital (edited 01-17-2003 12:23 PM).]
Peekay
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 5:23 pm    Post subject: 46 I don't think the holes expanding would be a problem. They are already in the urinal and have been in the water since before we got there, so they should already be at their equilibrium expansion for the temperature.
Icarus
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 5:24 pm    Post subject: 47 Since it seems the intention was to mold the marbles to fill the holes, let the room fill with water, then slip out the window - and since we're off on a tangent picking apart the intended solution anyway - exactly how long can you tread water before exhaustion makes it impossible to keep your head above water ? If the window is near the ceiling, too high for you to reach by jumping, then I'd say it's at least 7' high ? How long will it take water flowing into a urinal to fill the room ? Also, I really doubt a cabin in the woods was made with perfectly airtight walls, floor, and door. It seems to me that the water would seep out of the room almost as fast as it comes into the urinal. Assuming it does fill the room faster than it exits - I still think that by the time you wait for that room to fill with water, you would drown.
Termital
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 5:25 pm    Post subject: 48 Oh, and that too (PK's) [This message has been edited by Termital (edited 01-17-2003 12:44 PM).]
DropOfaHat
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 5:54 pm    Post subject: 49 Sooo... where exactly do we stand? Has the puzzle been solved, or not? Looking back, it APPEARS that I was the first to suggest the heat expanding the marbles to block the drain holes. (By the way, I think the hat may be used to fill with water to expand the marbles, because if you just drop them in the urinal, they'll fall through, it'll take some time for them to expand - even if the hat leaks, it should be long enough.) Does that mean I solved the puzzle?
cha
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 6:23 pm    Post subject: 50 sorry, didn't read 2nd page... [This message has been edited by cha (edited 01-17-2003 01:26 PM).]
chesterthecrab
Guest

 Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:31 pm    Post subject: 51 I think that I have the solution - First, catch the light from the window on to your magnifying glass. Place your hat on the ground and start a fire. Place the marbles into the flame so that they expand. take the marbles, now larger from the heat, and place them on top of the holes in the urinal drain. Normally, the room temperature would cool the marbles down, but the hot water will keep the marbles hot enough to not return to normal size. As for taking the marbles out of the burning hat in the first place...I don't know
woody
Guest

 Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:36 pm    Post subject: 52 Alright, how hot is 'almost painful?'
chesterthecrab
Guest

 Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:37 pm    Post subject: 53 By the way, the hot water is said as "ALMOST" painfully hot, meaning that you will not become hurt from the water. Also, I have a question - can wet things, like wet clothes, burn?
originalseren_dipity
Icarian Member

 Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2003 2:32 am    Post subject: 54 Couldn't you use the glass to set the hat on fire by sunlight magnified, and then take the hat to the wooden door and burn it down?
JustCurious
Icarian Member

 Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2003 4:51 am    Post subject: 55 "It's a fairly free form kind of puzzle, and I therefore hope it doesn't have any unintended solutions." There may be other ways... burning down the door, or even the whole house would work... but we've arrived the the desired answer. ------------------ When suddenly, all the air molecules moved to the other side of the room! (It's one of those things that either happens to you, or it doesn't)
ChienFou

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 9:41 am    Post subject: 56

 Quote: you (and your dog Spot) were discovered,

duh, we were discovered. "Excuse me person who discovered us, can you open the door please?"
rosebud1o1
Icarian Member

 Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 4:49 pm    Post subject: 57 FORGET THE MARBLES! You guys are missing an obious one! Ok... you are a skiny, small person. Spot is the biggest st.bernard in the world(just pretend for the puzzle)! You tell your loyal companirn to stand under the window... you stand on his back and jump. the dog gives you the extra 3 and a half feet and you can reach the windo. you climb out and go to the door. you un lock the door and retreeve you dog and your home free... I hope you all cought that ... sorry for any misspellings, rosebud1o1
chesterthecrab
Guest

 Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 8:28 pm    Post subject: 58 [b]hi
chesterthecrab
Guest

 Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 8:28 pm    Post subject: 59 I have made entry#50. DID ANYONE NOT SEE IT?! IS THERE SOMETHING WRONG WITH IT? TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!TELL ME!
MatthewV
Daedalian Member :_

 Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 9:46 am    Post subject: 60 does the dog have to survive? Can we reach the window if we jump off of him? I dont believe that it would be possible to start a fire with clothing, magnifing glass and sunlight (unless you are really lucky::shurgs:: ) It was hard enough getting one going with a camera lense, dry grass and a very nice day. moving the hot marbles shouldnt be a problem, just use the shirt sleave at a holder.
rosebud1o1
Icarian Member

 Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:24 pm    Post subject: 61 Just to say, the urinal is on the wall... if you break it off the wall, there should be some kind of hole or plumbing in the wall... you can then either: 1)use the hole as a starting point for your magnifing glass to cut your way out, OR 2)use the pipes as a pole vault to get your self out the windo. sorry for any misspellings, rosebud1o1 Ps. It said you were "in a room" in a cabin...that might be useful, the walls might be thin plaster, you might be able to brake out, also in your cote pocket there might be a cell phone to call the police.
chesterthecrab
Guest

 Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 6:55 pm    Post subject: 62 rosebub1o1 - I THINK THAT THEY'D TELL YOU IF YOU HAD A CELL PHONE IN YOUR POCKET!!! WHAT TYPE OF SOLUTION IS THAT??!!
craby5
Guest

 Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 8:12 pm    Post subject: 63 Place clothing over holes in drain, pop marbles into holes which will seal with the added fabric from the clothing. As for the hot water, the water should cool down as the hot water heater empties. If the room were filling, the water in the boiler could not heat fast enough to make a room full of water hot.
The Fatman
Icarian Member

 Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 9:10 pm    Post subject: 64 Stand on the dog and open the window. OR Throw the dog at the window and see if the little bugger will grab on to the handle with its mouth or something. Neither of these ideas will actually help, but hey, so I'm not a genius, so sue me! [This message has been edited by The Fatman (edited 01-20-2003 04:17 PM).]
rustyjack
Guest

 Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 10:24 pm    Post subject: 65 I think rosebud is on to something when she mentioned the hole in the wall that would result from pulling the urinal off. Also, if that hole leads to nothing, you could set the urinal against the opposite wall and try to climb to the window that way. Don't ask me how you would get it off the wall though. Also, if you try to flood the room, you have to plug up the drain, the door, the hole at the bottom of the urinal, as well as any cracks in the wall or door. Also, I think that Sofis might want to clarify what kind of urinal it is (trench, porcelain, or other), if it has anything to do with the puzzle.
ZutAlors!
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:52 pm    Post subject: 66 Antrax (Reply 21): Or use the water to heat the marbles to make it expand. Sofis (Reply 22): That, for the record, is what I was going for. So that appears to be the correct answer. I'm a little uncomfortable with that, because: Coefficient of thermal expansion for glass (the marbles) is 9E-6/degC, or 5E-6/degF. The temperature swing the marbles would see is from, say room temperature to near boiling, so 140 degF or 78 degC max Marble size is about, say, 3/8" or 10mm. Multiply that all together and you get a marble diameter change of 0.27 mils, or 7 microns. Seven microns is an *extremely* small number. I might believe that the marbles are similar to that degree, but I have a hard time believing that the holes in the urinal are identically-sized down to that accuracy, given that it's fired ceramic, and there's no point in accurately grinding the holes that precisely.
Lucractius
Guest

 Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 5:29 am    Post subject: 67 Any one considered that the magnifying glass counld also be used to block the drain, with the hat and mabey the marbles for some extra weight. That or Keep throwing the marbles at the window, not sto hard that it would smash through but hard enough to make it crack, untill the window breaks into shards. Then use one of the shards, using the hat to prevent lacerating yourself, scrape away at the door untill you can unbar it and then unlock it, and get free. either any good?
Lucractius
Guest

 Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 5:41 am    Post subject: 68 oh or you could break the magnifying glass and use on of the shards to escape as before.
Lucky Wizard
Daedalian Member

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 3:48 pm    Post subject: 69

 Quote: That or Keep throwing the marbles at the window, not sto hard that it would smash through but hard enough to make it crack, untill the window breaks into shards.

I thought of something similar, but then found out (from this thread, no less) that marbles are made of glass.

Also, the puzzle identifies the window as armored glass, suggesting that marbles wouldn't break it.
Dastal
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:20 am    Post subject: 70 Or you could burn the door with the magnifying glass, using the marbles to refract the light until it strikes the door.
anybody_is
Icarian Member

 Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2003 6:01 pm    Post subject: 71 Hello, I got into this labyrinth more by accident than design. Anyway has anybody thought that if you have the dog you presumably has a collar (poss. also a lead) anyway using your marbles (literally) to sling something - even your tie, over the window handle. This may take some time. Then take your trousers off. Tie one trouser leg around dog. Attach other leg to tie or whatever is around the window handle. Hoist dog up.Hold on to other leg. Then shout "Bath!". At which point Spot will make for the door, thus hoisting you far enough off the floor to reach the window handle. Grab- or knock same to open window and exit. You may have to be fairly agile to achieve this in one flowing movement, but it could work. Good Luck!
nebulous menace
Guest

 Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:23 pm    Post subject: 72 If the glass marbles wouldn't heat up enough, then a layer of cloth with the marbles over it should block the urinal nicely. Yes, the clothes are "too porous" by themselves, but the cloth just has to be, effectively, an O-ring: well over 99% of each urinal hole will be blocked by the marble and the leakage from the cloth backing will be trivial. Personally I suspect with that weight of water, something else will give first; I haven't done the math but I think seven feet of water is about fifteen PSI (I think fourteen feet is one atmosphere of pressure) so at that height, the bottom foot of a three foot wide door will have 36 * 12 *15 = about 7000 pounds of pressure on it. That's like balancing three cars on it- something's going to give. Oh, and if you get tired of treading water (after it gets above five feet), you can do a "Dead Man's Float" and rest. You're good for hours without drowning, possibly days.
ZutAlors!
Daedalian Member

Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:48 am    Post subject: 73

 Quote: I haven't done the math but I think seven feet of water is about fifteen PSI (I think fourteen feet is one atmosphere of pressure)
One atmosphere is ~32 feet of water, and one foot of water is about 0.4 psi (1 ft. of Water = 0.4333 psi, actually). Doors and door frames are pretty stout, and the force would be spread pretty evanly, so I wouldn't be surprised if the door were able to withstand the water. Wouldn't be surprised if it gave way, either, so your point stands.

[This message has been edited by ZutAlors! (edited 01-23-2003 09:50 PM).]
Player One
Icarian Member

 Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:07 pm    Post subject: 74 The puzzle says that your clothes are too porous. What about the bag the marbles are in?
Jinxkitten
Icarian Member

 Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 7:49 am    Post subject: 75 Gee, how long do people continue trying to solve, after it HAS been solved... LOL Whether by expansion, or the use of clothing as an O-ring of sorts, the holes would be sealed. No one here has ever taken a bath appearantly, for they seem to have forgotten that water cools... LOL As the wood soaks up water it will expand, so any small cracks or whatnot will seal themselves. If the door (or walls for that matter) give under pressure of the water, you just get out that much sooner. If you simply float on your back, you can stave off drowning for quite a while... unfortunately dogs don't float nearly as well, so poor Spot is either gonna drown, or you are gonna hafta kill him to keep him from trying to climb on top of you while you are floating.... unless of course he is small enough not to push you under. BTW i LIKED this puzzle... i could actually figure it out! LOL
Scotty Ř
Icarian Member

 Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 9:59 am    Post subject: 76 Originally posted by Jinxkitten:Gee, how long do people continue trying to solve, after it HAS been solved... LOL No one here has ever taken a bath appearantly, for they seem to have forgotten that water cools... LOL Well just because a puzzle has been solved, that doesn't mean that we must all shut up. Even though I'm new here, I've kind of figured out that the purpose of the GL puzzles are to make people think about things in logical or lateral ways. Personally I see no problem in people trying to nut out new solutions, they're interesting. Keep it up guys!
Suspence
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 3:54 pm    Post subject: 77 I'm still wondering how I knew that the doors were barred... ------------------ I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature
Someone
Guest

 Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 8:32 pm    Post subject: 78 You could escape through the sewers if you broke the urinal...
rosebud1o1
Icarian Member

 Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 9:51 pm    Post subject: 79 thank you "rustyjack"... For once someone listens to a kid... and pluss i am a "she"... thanx... and the cellphone was just a thought --------------------------- =-P --------------------------------- sory for any misspeings!
John Doe
Icarian Member

 Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2003 2:21 am    Post subject: 80 Okay! You take the urnial off the wall it will make a hole. So climb out the hole. OR. Take the handel off the magnifying glass and set the other part on the hole and put the marbels onto of that so that it is weighted down and then let the heat of the water make it larger to fill the room. [This message has been edited by John Doe (edited 01-27-2003 10:40 PM).]
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