WSU IS&T 1100 Internet Project

[SteelCity]

well it seems that there are quite a few who say they are going to keep. If everyone actually votes like they are saying in the discussion area we should be alright. Hopefully we have established some trust.

[rodneylips]

Lets be keepers

[ptc0709]

He's a keeper, She's a keeper.
Momma always said we should share. But if I keep wouldn't that be contrary to sharing...?

Taking is also selfish but it allows others to share...HMMM!

[BoJiggy]

It looks like there are more people willing to work together on this challenge. I am going to side with MrOrc and lambiemommy and any one else who wants to be a keeper. I AM A KEEPER!!!!!!!!!

------------------

[firemeboy]

Oh oh, you've been corrupted by Chuck!

I'm really going to have to change that rule. In fact I just shouldn't tell you how exactly you win. There are different types of winning and maybe I should leave that up to you. Certainly to gain the most points as an indivual is a type of winning, but what about getting the community to get the most points? Remember, this is the Internet, the 'wired society'. Make your own rules, throw mine to the wind. Tell me what I can do with my rules... After all, what do you have to fear from me other than a bad grade?

[firemeboy]

[vlost]

Rule 5 – Cooperation will be greatly rewarded in this game. If you cooperate, the group will win.


Group vs Individual


If we try individually to will we ALL lose. If any one wants to win We Must Try To Win As A GROUP.

[This message has been edited by vlost (edited 10-16-2002 04:48 AM).]

[vlost]

MrOrc,
I did bid 0. Marion automatically changed all 0 bid to 1 bids. But only the 2 of us who ended up with 1 bids would know that.

[This message has been edited by vlost (edited 10-16-2002 04:42 AM).]

[firemeboy]

I confimr this. I did round up the bids to 1. V-lost was not trying to pull a fast one.

[Mr. Orc]

This is the third time I've tried posting something so if you see multiple postings that say the same thing please excuse...

Anyway,
this is weird. Its so easy to lie when no one knows you. But I know the cyber you. Who do I trust? Do I even care if others beat me? NOPE! because I don't care. I really don't. I imagine a year from now some of you might be telling your friends how you fooled your class and earned three times as many points as they did. Well you don't get a new car, or reach Nirvana. It reminds me of certain CEO's of certain companies that piggy backed on other honest people to earn three times as much as they did. While the others lost their retirement. I will place my vote as a KEEPER! because others are depending on me to be a keeper. I will TRUST because I can be TRUSTED.

[lambiemommy]

Ohhhhh! That was a good one Mr. Orc, how else can you earn people's trust unless you yourself are to be trusted! This challenge should everyone's stripes! (I wouldn't want to be on the take this time!) You just might find the rest of us have formed a on-line community. The next challenge might be to give your points to people you trust, if you give to people who return points to you, you both will get double! If no one wants to share with you, you will end up loosing points.... (That would teach cooperation and be a way to punish those who were on the take!) Too bad I'm not making up the rules.... or am I?

[firemeboy]

Ok group, here is challenge #3

Challenge #3 The Stock Market
In this game you have to predict how brave your fellow players are. You each hold one share of Weber State Stock. It rises and falls with the best of them. You were actually given this stock by your dear sweet grandma who purchased it for $1. This stock has just started to rise, but will invariably fall. The trick is that it only rises while people are buying. When you 'sell' your stock, if the stock is rising then you get full price for whatever price you sell at. If the stock is going down, however, then you get much less. The stock rises when a majority of people are holding their stock. When people start to sell, it falls quickly. You will send me the price at which you want to sell your stock.

For example, lets say the bidding goes like this:

Sell at:

50
70
90
150
300
500
550
580
700
800

The first five people would get what exactly they ask for. The next five would get less. The sixth person would get 50 of what the 5th person bid, the seventh person would get 25 of what the 4th bid, th eighth person would get 12 percent of what the 3rd person big, etc. 6 percent and 3 percent for the 9th and 10th.

Questions? Let me know if you have any.

Ties will be determined by a flip of a coin so avoid them by bidding in odd numbers. 204 for example, not 200.

[Mr. Orc]

I think I'm confused. Is this a one time buy/sell or a continuous, "realtime", event?
What do the 11th-last people get? Am I supposed to let you know if I am buying or selling right now? Is the stock always increasing and decreasing or will it be determined once a 'one time' buy/sell is e-mailed to you? Are the numbers you used as an example a guide line, or will you see people selling in the billions? Does this challenge end on Sunday? Last question, can you post the results of last weeks challenge? Thanks

[This message has been edited by Mr. Orc (edited 10-19-2002 12:33 PM).]

[gabray]

If we are only supposed to give you the price that we want to sell at. Who's buying?

[SteelCity]

I think this challenge is a lot like the first one we did. Although I thought Vlost's strategy wasn't a good idea on the first challenge, I think it would be a good idea on this one. If we was to all sell at the same amount and sell it at a high price, we could all benefit. Cooperation has been very difficult to get in this game. Also I think the ones that try to gain a lot of points from this challenge will end up on the losing end. If this was for real money, if my stock went up $5 a share I would be happy with a 500% profit.



[This message has been edited by SteelCity (edited 10-20-2002 09:47 PM).]

[Titan]

I'm sorry that it has taken this long to submit a reply. I was on the other page and didn't think that a challenge three had been given untill this very moment. I just read the challenge and I feel that everyone is a little confused including myself. However I don't have time to e-mail a question and recieve an answer in time to reply for this week, so I guess we are all on our own on this one.

[firemeboy]

Sorry folks, the last game I ran had 10 people in it so the instructions reflected that. This game has 15-16 people in it. The first half of the people will get what they sell at, the last half of the people will just get a small percentage of what they sell at. The strategy is basically that you don't want to be the lowest bid, and you certainly don't want to be near the top. The ideal position is to be number 6 or 7. This way you get the full amount of what you bid, and that bid is higher than the first 5 or 6.

I will be posting results of the second challenge shortly.

Marion

[firemeboy]

code:

---

               #1      Result          #2      Result  Totals


skycon	        150	925		take	500	1425


Nanuq99	        230	885		Take	500	1385


Snoopy	        250	875		take	500	1375


SteelCity	250	875		take	500	1375


Aiden	        251	999		keep	200	1199


Mulek	        5	997		keep	200	1197


KamelRetro	7	996		keep	200	1196


Rodneylips	50	975		keep	200	1175


ptc0709	        51	974		keep	200	1174


gabray	        95	952		keep	200	1152


Titan	        105	947		keep	200	1147


Bojiggy	        120	940		Keep	200	1140


Mr. Orc	        154	923		keep	200	1123


Lambiemommiy	249	875		keep	200	1075


vlost	        1	798		Keep	200	998


Dark Knight	1	798				798


Elaine451	200	900				900

---

[This message has been edited by firemeboy (edited 10-21-2002 12:01 PM).]

[lambiemommy]

I have no clue on this one (challenge 3), as you can see from the postings of the last challenge, we have wolves among the fold. I think that one aspect of on-line communities that this project fails to simulate is that if I am going to invest time in an on-line forum or discussion group, I will choose one of like interests and VALUES. The compititon for grades and points is too strong an alure for this group. I lost all my gains on my 401k in the recent market correction so I feel at a vast disadvantage on this challenge.

[lambiemommy]

By the way, steelcity, you are as good as your name.

[firemeboy]

With this challenge there is no benefit to working together as a community. Some may make off like bandits, but others will get next to nothing. Hmmmm, making off like bandits, next to nothing. It sounds like something in the news recently but I can't quite place it... *Cough cough Enron cough cough*

The trick is to know when to sell, and sell soon or you will be left holding the bag.

[Dark Knight]

Due to the lack of communication and cooperation in our group, with no community strategy, no clearly defined leadership, and no trust among the group as a whole; if we continue in the pattern we are in the "biggest liar" won't win, but the luckiest liar. Where there is absolutely no cooperation and everything is in utter chaos, deception won't work. Because there is no plan being followed, there is no way anybody can really cheat anybody out of anything.
As I see it there are 3 primary directions this group can head.

1- We continue in the current pattern, and the luckiest person wins

2- We make a plan that a large group of us participates in, and take the risk of getting screwed by the few self-serving people that might just be greedy enough to ruin it for the rest of us.

3- All of us actually cooperate, communicate, and pledge together to follow a plan. Total Cooperation = Total Victory, thereby forming sort of a "Grey Labyrinth Utopia" (yes, I know that phrase comes across as ridiculously cheesy). As stupid as it sounds to some, if you think about it, it works. And if we all cooperate now, and we all gain the same amount of points each round from here on out, right? Guess who'll end up on bottom? Me for one, and I know Vlost would be another. I'm willing to accept that. My integrity is more important to me than a good grade, a job promotion, an Internet project, or what have you. And from earlier discussion it seems that Vlost wouldn’t oppose the idea of group cooperation either. And aside from that, the utter disorganization here is driving me nuts. So it would be worth it for me to lose if we can get rid of the chaos. I realize that this idea may not work for this round, because it's almost over, but if we get our act together, we can cut all the chaos and work as a team for the next round.
This takes the cooperation of everybody, meaning we need EVERYBODY to be talking here (and besides, if you say something here, you're fulfilling a part of a class assignment, so why not take the easy road, and give your input?).
So I propose the following:
By next Tuesday at 6:00pm, we all give our input on the next challenge. (Even if it means you just get online and say “I agree with _______” , or “I haven’t decided”) this way we can have an idea of where we all stand. If you are not comfortable with voting in the forum, then send your opinion to labrynthcoop@hotmail.com an account I just created for this purpose. Then I will make a summary of what has been stated (the proposed ideas and how many people stand where, including undecided and no response) once I have that compiled, I will post it (by midnight Wednesday). We then vote again until Friday at 6:00 pm. I will tally the votes and post them by Saturday morning. From this vote majority wins, and we all commit to mail Mr. Jensen with our respective answers.

It’s just an idea right now, but what do all of you think about it?

[BoJiggy]

This sounds like a good idea. I will be posting my message on Tuesday at 6:00 p.m.

[Mr. Orc]

Sign me up Dark. I too feel there is a great benefit to cooperating as a group. I apologize for the first challenge. You and Vlost bid 0 in the interest of the group. The rest of us weren't willing to commit due to the lack of cooperation. Hopefully the second challenge will reflect my true desires. I also think its apparent (from the second challenge) that we will not have total cooperation. We need to expect that and plan accordingly. Hopefully future challenges will benefit the group rather than an individual.

Marion,
Can you let us know when challenges are supposed to end? Also, I believe we are in week 9 making the last two essays due next week, is this right?

[SteelCity]

Hey dark your plan sounds great and you went into a lot of detail about the whole group participating and cooperating. If I read the results right from the second challenge you didn't even participate in it. Maybe Marion posted it wrong but if it is right, theres the first reason I won't cooperate with you.

[Titan]

Dark Knight, this may sound stupid, but I have e-mailed Marion about more information about challenge #3 but I haven't heard back from him. I got on this week end expecting to work on challenge four and I can't find it. So I may be blind or just an idiot, but could you let me know more information about this challenge, and whether er are still on challenge three or moved on to four? If you help me I would really appreciate it. Also it sounds like a few people are responding to a question on tuesday at 6:00 p.m. What answer are you looking for and I will be more than happy to respond.

[skycon]

Mr.Dark Knight, I too will not be participating in your little "let's all get along and wave lighters in the air" idea that you have proposed. I am playing each challenge individually, and take full responsibility for my decisions and the outcome of each challenge. Also, refer to rule #6, at the beginning of the project, this is my motivation. Later folks.......

[vlost]

Skycon,
Your own greed will not only make the rest of us loss but you yourself will loss. If we all end up with 0s and you get a 1 do you really win? Think of the points as dollars. The more we work together the more YOU and I will earn!

[lambiemommy]

Goodness children, this is a class, we are here to learn about behavior on the internet and how it differs from real life. As I see it, we are behaving just as our readings predicted. There is descent, distrust, a lack of cooperation, and a lack of community. For shame, all we have to do is participate, each of us know what are motivation is, it is ultimately to get a good, or at least a passing grade in this class. I for one, am trying to enjoy this experience, even if I loose, I have learned very valuable lessons in this exercise. I wouldn’t trust any of you right off if I met you in a classroom, why should an Internet classroom be any different. Each of us will demonstrate our trustworthiness, our ruthlessness, or our proclivity for darkness. All of these challenges have shown us that we can no easier form a “Utopia” online, than you can in real life. In fact, I think that this is a focused moment in human behavior. If you read all of the posts from the beginning to the end, we have behaved like a huge human psychology experiment. Isn’t that in part, what the Internet is all about? We are not less of the people we are in every day “RL”, but we are MORE of who we really are when we are logged in online. You leave all the artifice behind and strip off the polite, or protective facades and all you have left is a reflection of the real you. When you look into this mirror, what do you see? Do you like it? Are you proud?

By the way, I would love to participate in the 6:00 thing, only I usually have to work quite late, so I will log in ASAP when I get off.

Think about what these posts and your behavior says about who you really are.

[firemeboy]

Titan, I'm sorry, I haven't recieved your e-mail. Try sending it again, I usually don't have problems.

Also, the reason I have not posted the next challenge is because I'm waiting on a few more people. This works better with everyone's participation, and I understand that with technology, sometimes things go wrong.

And yes, I've sent out a reminder about the essasy.

[Titan]

Firemeboy, I will wait untill this meeting at 6:00 to see if it will answer the questions that I have. Dark Knight, I'm not sure if we were having this discussion on this site or if we were going to do it on the online discussion. I hope it is right here because I am having problems with my online discussion right now, I can't get in it.

[Dark Knight]

Well, due to what sounds like technological difficulty, the next challenge has not been posted yet. Rendering the Tuesday 6pm thing sort of useless. So, how does re-scheduling for Wednsday at same time sound? I may not be live on the forum, because I have work until late Wed. night. However, I will have the results compiled and on the Labyrinth before Thursday morning.

[firemeboy]

OK, here it is. Challenge 4.

Below are a list of companionships. The first person has control of 500 points. They can distribute it to their companion however they see fit. If their companion agrees, then the points are divided. If the companion does not agree then neither party get's anything. You may not haggle or complain or take part of it. Either you take what is offered, or you refues it.

Questions? This is how the companionships are broken up.

skycon - vlost
SteelCity - Lambiemommy
KamelRetro - Dark Knight
Mulek - Bojiggy
Aiden - Mr. Orc
ptc0709 - gabray
Rodneylips - Titan
Nanuq99 - Elaine 451

It may be important to note that those with more points have been paired with those with few points. So the people offering the points have more than those who are acceptings. I don't know if this will help you in making the decision on how to divide, or whether or not you should accept.

Good luck.

[This message has been edited by firemeboy (edited 11-04-2002 06:30 PM).]

[firemeboy]

Here are the standings after the last challenge...

skycon
SteelCity
KamelRetro
Mulek
Aiden
ptc0709
Rodneylips
gabray
Mr. Orc
Bojiggy
Dark Knight
Lambiemommiy
vlost
Nanuq99
Titan
Elaine451

[lambiemommy]

Are we just supposed to wait until our compainion makes us an offer? Where is the offer supposed to be posted? How do we respond to the offer? Do we just e-mail you, or them? What happens if they don't make us an offer? What is the point spread right now? And is it against the rules to say, "I won't come cheap"?

[SteelCity]

Lambie Mommy I wish it were against the rules to say that you don't come cheap but it's not. I have a feeling that all the people with fewer points than their companion are going to refuse any offer we give you to try and get back in the game. I also don't think we should have our offer put up in the discussion forum because others will base their decisions off of our offer. I needed to ask firemeboy if this challenge lasted until sunday like the other challenges? If it does we have plenty of time let me know what you want to do or your thoughts.

[lambiemommy]

Good point, that means you will need to have a private e-mail or go through Marion to make your offer. It also means that the offers should be good enough to be accepted, anyone can be bought...

[firemeboy]

No, you can tell your partner that you don't come cheap, but once the offer is proposed, he/she can not pull it back. It's written in stone so to speak.

Post your offer here on the board, and accept it here as well. There is really no reason to do it privately. Just because one person won't accept something, doesn't mean that another won't either... And yes, we will go until Sunday, maybe into next week, but I'd rather get to the last challenge quickly so that you have plenty of time to do the final piece to this whole project.

[Aiden]

Hey Mr. Orc, what do you think is fair?

[BoJiggy]

Whats up Malek? DO you have an offer for me?