WSU IS&T 1100 Week 6-7

[xcrystalheartx]

Censoring the net would be good in a lot of ways, but i don't know if it's absolutly necessary....i mean i think that it would be a good idea, but i think it would be good have it be a choice if you wanted your computer censored or not.

[Arsenalrocks]

I'm not for internet censorship. The internet was a tool created for communication. We all have differnent opinions, likes, interests, views...etc. The internet is a place for people to communicate to others around the world, no matter how different their views or beliefs are. The only time I can see when you would want to censor something is when it infringes upon the rights of someone else. That is the only time I would consider censorship.

[Spanglish]

The internet can be censored, but on ly if we cut ourselves off from the outside world. Then we would be able to moniter what is created and browsed in the USA.. When its a global thing, it isn't going to be possible to censor it. Then other people said that they dont want the government to censor it but really thats the only option.. other than like I say, control what goes into your own computer by buying the proper programs or whatever you have to do. How about we choose another topic... this one is getting old.

[Cheese]

I second the topic change, but don't want to bring up the new topic myself. I've had my fun...

[Summersj]

I would have to both agree and disagree with most everyone here. I believe that the government should not get involved with censorship of the internet. If they do that would infringe on the rights of the page creators. But, I do believe that something must be done to stop young children from accessing certin sites.
We debated what should be done in class and came up with some interesting soulutions. Someone suggested that censorship should not start with government but, should start in the home. I totally agree. If parents would spend a little more time on what was going on at home, instead of leaving it up to the government I truly believe this would not be such a big issue.

[catman]

I agree with summersj. Although the internet should be sensored it should not start with the govt. As much as I'd like to limit what is altogether on the internet, I can't. I should start with the homes getting filtering systems. Then maybe it could branch to a townm meeting where there is an agreement to get a city-wide filter. Then it could start into the state. Anyway it should start in the home and branch from there, it should not begin with the govt.

[Cheese]

Alrighty then, since on one has suggested an interesting topic, I am forced to attempt to bring a little fun to the forums.

What kind of music do you guys like? My rule of thumb is "If it was written after the Beatles, its not worth the paper it's written on." My favorite is classical, with Bach being a big highlight. My least favorite is anything rap. Oh! And I curse the day that Britney Spears first thought she had artistic talent.

~Chedder

[karrots]

Originally posted by catman:

---

I should start with the homes getting filtering systems. Then maybe it could branch to a townm meeting where there is an agreement to get a city-wide filter. Then it could start into the state. Anyway it should start in the home and branch from there, it should not begin with the govt.

---

You have a good idea but to adopt a city wide filter would require every ISP that has access to that citys customer base to have a filter. This would be hard with the national ISP's(MSN, ATT, etc...). This could also cause problems with those ISP's not wishing to pay to impliment such a thing. Filters on large scale tend to have problems other than just filtering content that doesn't need to be filtered. I guess my main point is for a city wide filter you would need a city freenet or a city based ISP. As for having a city based ISP that could be seen as un competitive. I guess if there is a common agreement among every one it would work. But thats not going to happen.

My question is if censorship starts with the government how much do they filter and how much do they leave to the people. You could get into very sticky situations with that. My other question is why start censorship at the government level? If you don't want it filter it yourself. The filter program I have at home does a good job of blocking unwanted things. But if I am activly seeking those things it can only do so much to protect.

[Mack]

Why should their be cencoring? I will tell you why. Protection of those who don't need to see or hear these obscene things. In my opinon there are more people in the world who whould rather not be involved in the obscene things. So why not let the people take one more step in seeing or hearing stuff that might be questionable you younger audences. Public T.V. is cencored (partly), so should the internet.

[catman]

I agree with you. If public television can be sensored the internet is just as public. It should be designed like tv. If you want the "clean stuff" thats available to the public, its should be there and "cleaned up" If you want the nasty porn and other crap, well just like cable tv. it should be on another system and you have to pay for it!

[karrots]

My question about censoring was directed at why have the government censor. Radio/TV Broadcasts are regulated by the FCC because as Marion said in the MWF class because its a public place. If you have cable or direct satelite its not regulated by the FCC as far as broadcast content.

I guess what people in the form really want it some sort of regulation of what can be on the internet. It used to be that way back when it was in its early years and it was governed by the NSF(National Science Foundation) you couldn't do commercial things etc... But now it the major backbone is provided by private communications companies. There is little left of the original NSF backbone. Do a traceroute some time you will see your traffice most likely go accrosss UUnet(MCI/Worldcom),QWest, or AT&T. All major backbone providers. Hence making the internet more like Cable or satelite. Hence like cable and satelite makeing the filtering be a home based thing. Most cable and satelite recievers have the cabiblity of blocking unwanted things. Even DVD players have this feature. Thus you can stop your kids from watching TV-M shows or R rated movies if you wish.

Thus to regulate the internet in the same fassion that the Radio spectrum is regulated would most likely be unconsitutional. Unless the connection is through government funded bandwidth. Which is currently the case it is illegal to view porn on the schools computers because the connection is provided through state funds. I think that is a Utah law not a Federal law though.

[This message has been edited by karrots (edited 02-28-2003 01:46 PM).]

[Spanglish]

Hey Cheese, I agree with you on the britney spears... and thats not mentioning the boy bands, I shudder and feel sick to my stomach when I hear about them... but I have to disagree with you on the other types of music... I think there is a lot of good stuff out there, obviously we all have our different tastes... Oh yeah, I can't stand country either.. But classical is allright when I am driving, I use it to to calm me down so I don't run these utah drivers off the roads... you know the ones, they line up next to you at a light knowing that their lane is going to end just up the road but think that you will let them in... They get on my nerves.

[360]

It is my opinion that there should be some censoring. Anything that is illegal should be censored. Pop-ups should be censored too. I figure that if people want to find something on the net, they will most likely find it. We don't need the help of those annoying pop-ups.
After that it is the responsibility of the gaurdians to censor or apply filters to internet browsing in their homes.

[360]

Good point Mack & Catman!
To some it up, internet should be censored like public TV, besides there is plenty of trash on there as it is.

[Beibei]

I want to talk about the internet in China. Through these years, there is a rapid increase in the number of registered Internet users in China. And there are more and more internet server providers. Also, the application of Internet is no longer limited to checking emails. Internet has become an important news media in China today. Because news on the internet is more up-to-date,it is especially popular among young people. Recently, E-commerce is booming in China too thanks to the development of Internet. Numerous enterprises have set up their website. And online purchases have become a large share of their business. The increasing convenience to collect information on the INternet has made the whole market more efficient. Not only in business but also in education. Internet is playing a more and more important role. Many schools now offer online courses, that changes the old education system in China a lot, so students can take the lesson at home.

[Beibei]

Now i want to talk about the technology in China as far as i know. In recent years, the information technology has made great improvement. Web management and Telecommunication technology are the most developted techonology. For example, recent advance gives customers more sense of security. This has greatly contributed to the boom of online purchases and the inovation in telecommunication is making connection equipment cheaper. And this is proved by the reduced price in phone calls. In the past, the highest speed of Internet is only 56k in China. But starting from last year, there are many companies offering wide-band Internet with connection speed of over 1M and some cable devise can even reach 10M.

[Beibei]

I am thinking one big advantage of using internet is to spread information to the world. Quickly and efficiently! For example, many big events hosted in China have their own website, so people all over the world can share the information quickly and on time. They dont need to go all the way to China and be there to see the program and experience. There is also a new way to make friends all over the world is to use internet. Many softwares such as AOL messenger, MSN messenger, ICQ... u can just post ur personal profile and make friends with people even across ocean. It's just so useful in many different ways, and more and more people are accpeting it as part of their life to see and know new things. The internet make the communication much easier. For example, when i was in the junior school, if i want to write a letter to my friend in the U.S., it will took almost a month for my friend to get the mail in hand, but now i can just reach them by e-mail in a second, and sometimes we can arrange the time to talk online, so that makes it easier for both of us.

[Beibei]

I also think internet helps to share info: for instance, many books are scanned and put online, so when people are doing research. They can just browse the online library instead of going to the distant libraries, which makes their life much more convenient.
Internet also helps to save resources! Because many files can be saved on a server and shared by several agencies. We no longer needs tons of paper copies of files. With a much less demand for paper, many trees are saved and the environment is preserved.

[Gelit]

Know what kiddos? Seems to me, censorship is a personal thing. If you want it...YOU DO IT! It's not going to happen any other way!

[JoBlack]

My friends, I believe in the bill of rights greatly but, (Always a big but)) PORN. Why! For those you make and for those who watch it, obvious have some mental problems. That kinda activity is damaging to the human character. There is no need for it. These pictures and who knows what should not be used for educational perposes. On NORMAL television they censore every word and take. I feel the same way about the internet. When a web page is made I think it should be sent to the isp and in time they reply back weather or not it can go up on the net. Now this would definitly cut down the number of sites. For every site I feel that the isp should have a name for the person in charge of the site. THis is for those who change there site on a everyday bases.
I feel as thourgh what ever the restrictions on tv the same should be on internet. Regardless of Payper view. That crap should not be on there.

[xcrystalheartx]

I agree with JoBlack. I think that is the first major thing that needs to be censored on the net. I hate going to a website that is supposedly harmless, and having naked people pop up, and sometimes they just keep coming. I mean, if i hate being exposed to it, just think of what it could be like for a 10 year old!

[princesspony]

i believe, that i will disagree on censoring porn. even though i find it to be at most times extremely demeaning to my role, it's still their right. and we discussed this in class,if you draw the line how will you draw it, and where will it end. and yes, maybe people are sick and disturbed for watching, purchasing, and/or enjoying pornography...but the same view could be taken on religions. how do you think people feel when time after time missionaries walk up and knock on the door... or when people tell you how your life and choice are irresponsible and incorrect because it doesn't follow a doctrine. what i'm saying is, that once you get rid of say porn, i'm sure someone will be yelling to get rid of all religion because it offends them.

[BalbanesBeoulve]

[BalbanesBeoulve]

[GUITARPRO#1]

Hi everyone,

I would just like to say in memory of Mr. Rodgers, his show had a lot of material an ways to deal with subjects that just can't be said any better by anyone else or by technology. The good old days when we were kids.
Mr. Rodgers R.I.P.

[ChinaMan]

I would like to comment on Beibei's remarks about technology in China. I think it is fascinating to see how different countries, races, cultures and religions respond to advancements in technology. Some countries embrace new "toys"-other countries want to stay the way they are. Some cultures and governments spend millions and billions of $ to develop new technology-while other cultures and governments spend millions of $ to shield their population from the total onslought of information.
I think this, more than anything else, is why it is impossible to censor the internet. In order to censor something, you must first decide what is "right" and what is "wrong"-what will be "allowed" and what will be "censored". Who could make such a decision? No matter what decision was made, there would be a large poplulation that would not agree with the censorship. This (America) is a free country, as much as I don't necessarily agree with it, we must give as much freedom to the person who hates the government as we do to the person who dies defending it.
Different people in different parts of the world with different beliefs and backgrounds have different reactions to technology it have always been thus, and will ever be.
-ChinaMan

[Spanglish]

Hey Balbanes Beoulve,
Here's what I have to say to your comment... HERE HERE. You speak the truth, if its on the net and you don't like it or want to see it, DON'T LOOK. It's a cheap system that works out really good.

[Cheese]

Hey JoBlack! I think BalbanesBeoulve has made a fantastic attack on your possition. Do something about it! Explain why looking at porn indicates mental problems. Isn't looking at porn just following your natural reproductive instincts? If someone of the opposite sex suddenly took off all their clothes in front of you, wouldn't you watch? Even for just a little bit?

Ok, ok, I can just hear everyone with under-par reasoning skills howling in rage against my position. Let me say that I think porn is something that shouldn't even exist on the planet, and the only reason I pose these questions to you is to try to get you folks to think about what you post before you post it. Its very true that if you are religious (like me) you have had "porn is bad" pumped into your mind by the gallon every Sunday since you were 12. Rather than squawk your lessons parrot-like, have arguments strong enough to withstand these attacks.

JoBlack, I'm going to take up arms against BalbanesBeoulve in a few days if you don't. I'm certain there is enough ammunition on our side of the argument to win the issue "Why porn shouldn't be on the net." I don't think we can win "Why we shouldn't let people put it on the net" for reasons I've explained in previous posts.

~Avaxtskyr
Skyr is a soft cheese that is made from the whey of cow's milk. This cheese is made in various forms: natural Skyr, Skyr with fruit - Avaxtskyr, or with added cream - Rjomaskyr. If there anything left over after cheese-making, the rest is made into a drink called Mysa.

[firemeboy]

Excellent discussion, don't let it die just beacuse we have a week 8...

[Chuck]

Porn on websites is here to stay. How about the emailing of porn directly to childrens' email addresses? Should that be illegal? Spam filters can catch some of it but spammers are clever and can get some through. I suppose parents could preview all the email their kids get but that defeats the speed of internet communications and shouldn't be necessary. The same is true if parents have to maintain lists of allowable email sources.

Perhaps adults should not be allowed to contact children without parental consent. It doesn't matter whether it's in person, by phone, by postal mail, or by email. If a minor initiats communications with adults or goes to a website and signs up for some email without asking his or her parents then it's the minor who's breaking the rule. If a spammer initiats the contact then the spammer is breaking the rule and can be prosecuted.

Is it unconstitutional to have laws preventing adults from contacting children without the consent of the childrens' parents?

[BalbanesBeoulve]

I am currently playing an online rpg called ToonTown. As you can tell by the name, it's aimed at children, it's a Disney themed game where you battle robots with jokes. You throw pies at them, squirt them with water guns, and make them trip on banana peels.

Something that is very different from other online games is the fact that you usually can't talk to other players directly. You choose what to say from preset choices.

"Hello!"
"Follow me."
"Can you teleport to me?"

So the only way to talk to other players with your keyboard is to meet someone outside of the game and exchange passwords that are used inside of the game, that way kids could talk to their friends from school, but not Mr. Smith, the pedophile down the street.

[JoBlack]

Balbanesbeaoulve said
"Wow. This is a horrible idea. I have my own domain. I can put whatever I want up on it. I payed for it, I pay for my hosting. As long as I don't put anything illegal on it, I should be able to put whatever I want up, when I want. Having to go through some filter is ridiculous. Do you know how many people would be needed to manually check every single web page that gets put up on the internet? Every picture? That's millions and millions of files. That's impossible to monitor."
Well you know what porn should be illegal and it is just in a matter of time. And you are right millions of files.

http://www.pfir.org/statements/policies - People For Internet Responsibility
PFIR
PFIR Statement on Internet
Policies,
The Internet is undoubtedly one of the most powerful tools that have come to pass in human history -- for good or ill. To squander it, to allow shortsighted attitudes or the self-interests of any particular groups or individuals to divert its course to the detriment of society, would earn us the condemnation of the future. How much better it would be to instead earn the future's thanks, for doing what we knew was right, when we had the opportunity to do so.

Why was PFIR formed?
With the rapid commercialization of the Internet and its World Wide Web, there are increasing concerns that decisions regarding these resources are being irresponsibly skewed through the influence of powerful, vested interests (in commercial, political, and other categories) whose goals are not necessarily always aligned with the concerns of individuals and the people at large. Such incompatibilities have surfaced in areas including domain name policy, spam, security, encryption, freedom of speech issues, privacy, content rating and filtering, and a vast array of other topics. New ones are sure to come!
While corporate, political, and other related entities most certainly have important roles to play in Internet issues, it is unwise and unacceptable for their influences to be effectively the only significant factors affecting the broad scope of Internet policies.
There are numerous examples. While e-commerce can indeed be a wonderful tool, it is shortsighted in the extreme for some interests to treat the incredible creation that is the Internet as little more than a giant mail-order catalog, with "dot-com" associated hype on seemingly every ad, billboard and commercial. Protection of copyrights in a global Internet environment, without abusive monitoring, is a challenge indeed. The Internet can be a fantastic tool to encourage the flow of ideas, information, and education, but it can also be used to track users' behaviors and invade individuals' privacy in manners that George Orwell never imagined in his 1984 world.
Above all, it's critical that reasonable discussion be encouraged that is free from the overly polarized "yelling and screaming" that often characterizes ongoing debates about Internet issues. It is very important to provide some degree of balance against those persons or groups who might attempt to impose their views on the Internet by edict, without meaningful input from the people whose lives will ultimately be most affected.

Executive Summary
It is increasingly clear that the Internet, as embodied by the World Wide Web and a wide variety of other Net-based services and technologies is rapidly becoming a critical underpinning and foundation to virtually every aspect of our lives, from the very fundamental to the exceedingly mundane. It is likely that few aspects of commerce, education, communications, government, entertainment, or any other facets of our daily existence will be unaffected by this exceedingly rapid change that is sweeping the globe far more rapidly than would have been anticipated only a few years ago. These global and interconnected developments, unprecedented in human history, suggest that decisions regarding policies, regulation, control, and related Internet activities will be of crucial concern to the entire world's population. Consequently, the proper representation of many varied interests regarding such activities must be respected. It is our belief that the current mechanism for making many key decisions in this regard, as embodied in The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, "ICANN", is proving to be inadequate to the task at hand. We believe that this is the result primarily of structural and historical factors, not the fault of the individuals directing ICANN's activities, whom we feel have been genuinely attempting to do the best possible job that they could with highly complex, contentious, and thankless tasks.

[Kanchaser]

My belief is that everybody was born with the basic knowledge of right and wrong. I don't know why people would make certain websites or say certain things. In todays world we are dealing with the worst moral issues ever seen. They get worse and worse each day. People today are getting more insensitive to the things they see and hear just because so many others insist on letting porn sites, sex, language, dishonesty and many more things flow through the internet, Tv and radio. I believe that this stuff is wrong. I hate to even think that we have to screen and block certain things, but with as many worthless people doing such awful things I guess we can't change them. I totally agree that things should be censored!!!!!!!!!!!!

[karrots]

Originally posted by Cheese Reply 38:

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To check the strength of this filter I did a search for "teen safe sex" Nothing I got was pornographic, but there were a few sights that had some rather explicit images and text on them (e.g. detailed instructions on how to have sex). As you can see, no filter is perfect.

---

I agree with this statement. I was just wondering what level you had it set on? There are three levels to it filter.

• Use strict filtering (Filter both explicit text and explicit images)
  
• Use moderate filtering (Filter explicit images only - default behavior)
  
• Do not filter my search results.
  

Just for information purposes only. No argument with what was found.

Karrots

[Frank]

The Censorship topic is getting quite old. If you start censoring the internet where does this censorship end. Will music then be censored, the way we talk, our beliefs, what else? You might as well just take away the rest of our rights that America supposedly gives us.

[BalbanesBeoulve]

[allstate]

If everyone was born with a basic knowledge of right and wrong then why in the heck did we just lose the twin towers in New York, were they choosing the right? Ask the fools that are behind terrorism or more so Al-Queda and they will tell you its about religion, what they stand for, and because they feel its the RIGHT thing to do. Its a cold world.

[This message has been edited by allstate (edited 03-07-2003 01:29 PM).]

[Beibei]

sorry, I am little bit late for the censorship topic, i have to organize my language. here is what i think about censorship. with the increasing prevalence of the belief of human rights in our modern society, censorship, once as a means of governing people, is being considered a kind of violation of human right. but we should notice that in this moment of the time, it also presents us with numerous negative problems along with its benefits. if the censorship is completely cancelled, or to be more accurate, too weak, we would witness a surge of various coverage and teleprograms. A lot of factors exist. therefore, our morality will definitely receive a heavy blow. for example, exposure to excessive sex and violence brings about bad mental state, and is particularly harmful to children. in addition, the absence of censorship gives birth to other social problems, if the totally uncontrolled news media report on the dark side of our society and ignore the positive side, people would lost their hope of the world. and if some articles appear on newspapers or on the internet, worse condition are expected. so much freedom of press should not always be out of control if we are to take the consideration of our society’s future and benefit in the long run. admittedly, the weakening of censorship is a good thing, though there are problems. we human beings have been seeking freedom since the dawn of civilization. but if the result of the abolition of censorship is the deterioration of our morality, on which most of our civil and human rights are based on. we might as well keep some of the degree of it.

[This message has been edited by Beibei (edited 03-09-2003 08:51 PM).]