ONLINE PROJECT

[firemeboy]

OK, this thread will be for the entire project, it will span roughly 5 weeks. Here are the general rules to the Online Project.

Rule 1- Everybody starts out with 1000 points.

Rule 2 – Sometimes you will know how many points you have, sometimes you will not. Sometimes you will think you know that you have at least X amount of points, but you will not know the exact number. This will vary based on the game.

Rule 3 – Always e-mail me your answers, unless I tell you that you can post them.

Rule 4 – Feel free to discuss anything in this game unless I specifically state otherwise.

Rule 5 – Many times, cooperation will be greatly rewarded in this game. If you cooperate, the group will get more points than if you had not cooperated.

Rule 6 – Many times, lying, cheating, sneaking behind the back will be rewarded as well.

Rule 8 – If you do not respond to a challenge or ‘game’, then you will lose points. If you miss two in a row, you will be out of the game (though if you let me know in advance, we may work things out…)

Rule 9 – Have fun. Remember, discussion is key so get to know one another… You need to decide who you can trust...

Rule 10 - The person with the most points at the end of the game has the most points at the end of the game. It will be up to each of you to decide who has won or lost.

------

And here is challenge #1

Challenge #1.

As stated above, you each have 1000 points. In this challenge, I am selling 250 points to the highest bidder. You can buy these 'extra' points, with the points you already have. If you bid 100 points, and you are the highest bidder, then you lose those 100 points, but gain 250, for a net gain of 150 points.

There are two catches The first catch is that if you are not the high bidder, you lose all of the points that you bid. If you bid 100 points, and you are not the high bidder, then you lose 100 points.

The second catch is that whoever bids the lowest loses half of the points of the highest bidder. So if the winning bid was 200, and the lowest bid was 4, then whoever bid four loses 100 points, putting them in dead last.

You can bid as many points as you wish, up to 1000.

If you choose not to bid, you will lose 250 points.

Questions?

e-mail me your bids. The bids cannot be done in public. If you want to raise your bid before the deadline, you are free to do so.

***I forgot to add the deadline. Deadline is Sunday at midnight.***



[This message has been edited by firemeboy (edited 02-12-2003 03:28 PM).]

[jesternl]

This will be fun

[Zot]

What is the deadline?

[firemeboy]

Deadline is each Sunday by midnight, though some of those may be pushed back.

[Cheese]

Just posing to try to get this thread higher on the list. I was worried that I had vanished some how

[firemeboy]

NOTE: I'm changing the rules. Rather than lose half of what you bid, you will lose all of what you bid if you are not the highest bidder. This is a subtle change, but since I've only got 4 bids, I don't think it will make a huge difference. It works better with the analogy anyway.

I will change this in the rules above.

[jesternl]

two questions actually:
Is this contest open for anyone, or just the people in youtr class?
Second, what if the two high bidders bid equal amounts?

[Allaround1]

Here's an idea. Why doesn't everyone just cooperate and bid 1000, that way it's a win win situation for everyone! As I see it right now everyone is going to screw themselves by bidding different, lets all bid 1000!! Post and let us all know what your decisions are.

[firemeboy]

jesternl, I've run these games separately several times, but this time around it is just for my class. I'll let you in though. For the price of tuition of the class.

I've got 50 people in this game which is going to be a logistical nightmare. Since they've paid for the privilage of being run through this horendous experiment, I feel like I need to focus on them.

But if you want to take part in the next 'non-class' one, you're more than welcome to. Or heck, start your own. I send you the questions I've used in the past.

Oh, and if there is a tie for the highest, the winnings are split. If there is a tie for the lowest, everybody loses half of the highest.

[Kerioth]

Questions Questions Questions Questions (third time's the charm...forth is just overdoing it)

With your change in rules oh, Mighty Leader Ours:

[chocolate]

I agree with Allaround1 that we should all agree to bid the exact same amount and then we all win. Although I assume Teacher wants us to work a little bit harder on it than this

[This message has been edited by chocolate (edited 02-13-2003 12:50 AM).]

[Allaround1]

Cool, cool Chocolate, more people need to post and let us know what they want to do. I think in this case cooperation is more rewarding, lets all work together and win this!!!!

[firemeboy]

(To Kerioth)

No, the lowest bidder will still lose half of the highest bidders points. Still something you want to steer away from.

[This message has been edited by firemeboy (edited 02-13-2003 06:05 PM).]

[firemeboy]

And just for clarification. If everybody bids the exact same ammount, then the 250 points will be divided evenly, and nobody will lose any points. So if everybody bids 1, then you will all lose one, and then pick up 5 or so more points.

[Cheese]

Hey all!
This cooperation thing seems like the key. How bout we all bid 1pt? This will give everyone a bonus. Of course, you are all saying "Sure, Cheese is going to get us all to bid 1 pt, then he is going to bid 1000." Not so! In fact, I've just sent my bid in, and although I can't say what it was because of the rules, I can say that I'm counting on people working with me. Lets all win!

~Zanetti Parmigiano Reggiano
Zanetti Parmigiano Reggiano is the King of Cheese, one of Italy's finest products. With its rich, nutty taste and distinctive aroma, it is used by the finest chefs in food preparation. But it is equally delicious to eat with fruit, crackers and wine or sprinkled on pasta, rice or soup.

[Edogg]

Im thinking about it, cheese. but its hard to trust everyone. It is so easy just to go the other way and bid 1,001. You never know.

[Spanglish]

Hey, bidding the same amount would be great for the game but come on were not in a perfect world here. Someone will be the backstabber and be rewarded for it.. I'm not that ignorant to think that all will go well. I'm not about to backstab anyone either... I'm just not going to set myself up to be taken like a fool.

[firemeboy]

Nobody can bid 1001 since everybody (at this point) only has 1000.

By the way, here are the people I haven't heard from.

dazedandconfused
Beibei
Beebs
frank
shining gundam
Don Jones
chocolate
BalbanesBeoulve
Edogg
catman
Hondo
Karrots
Jaamal
360
Fatex
El Galan
allstate
JoBlack
Mack
TGR
Chinaman
teethgrinder
Larin
Dark Legionaire
kys
DNA

[dazedconfused]

the way I see it if their are 5 games divided into a 1000 points that leaves 200 points to saftly last to the end of the series If you lose in the begining of the game all your points. Do you fail? OR LOSE CLASS POINTS?

[Allaround1]

I dig the 1pt idea better than 1000pts. Everyone just needs to be trusting and just put their damn bid in at 1 and forget it. I think this is one of the times we will be rewarded for cooperation, lets do it. I'm putting in my bid right now.

[firemeboy]

This challenge is in no way related to your grade other than your analysis at the end of the game. I will grade your essay, but you will not receive or lose points based on how well you do in the game.



[This message has been edited by firemeboy (edited 02-14-2003 01:22 PM).]

[Don Jones]

May the best Man or Woman Win!

[allstate]

We must work together, its all about the points, if all bid just 1, we all increase, everyone!! Remember if some decide to backstab and bid 2 ponits, then the few that bid 1 will be screwed, so bid 1!!

[shining gundam]

I can't believe you are going to be that trustworthy! I don't trust any of you! Suppose everyone cooperates and bids 1 point is there any guarantee that at 11:59 sunday night somebody won't bid 2 points and screw the rest of us? You can't truly expect people to go along with this. But it sounds like a great idea (wink,wink), so sure I'll bid 1 point just LIKE EVERBODY ELSE WILL.

[Cheese]

[allstate]

Ok, its all about the mind games. I just want to see If any one is really deperate enough to post 1000 points just to win; just to win he will destroy one maybe two people (the lowest bidders) but at the same time he will drop himself to almost nothing, although that could be the point of the game TO DOMINATE ALL, BY WINNING. Be my guest.

[Don Jones]

Well Cheese your obviously a woman (whether you are male or female) maybe a girl. A little girl. And Cheeeseee did you See quotation marks, becouse I sure in the hell didnt. I made a statement! to all the men and woman of the class. And I think you are bitter becouse I forgot the little girls. You obviously understand english as well as math Just play the game.

[Isolder74]

voting only one point for everyone does have merit but it is a large risk. It requires that everyone stick to gather on it. no individually the only bid that does any real good is a bid less then 250 as otherwise you lose more than you gain.

[Kerioth]

I think bidding 1 point is a great idea...split the points evenly between everybody. Although it's difficult to trust everyone. But really, the best way to win is to have everyone come out on top. This is the only way to accomplish this feat. I am no going to change my bid. Everyone wants to win in the end, but at the expense of others fortunes?

[firemeboy]

Here are the people that I have not recieved bids for. I got quite a few today, thank you. Looks like you were using the e-day well...

dazedandconfused
Beibei
Beebs
frank
chocolate
BalbanesBeoulve
Edogg
Hondo
Jaamal
360
Fatex
El Galan
JoBlack
TGR
Chinaman
teethgrinder
Larin
Dark Legionaire
kys

[chocolate]

I agree that we should all bid 1 and run with it. Truly I am sure that someone will bid more and beat out the rest of us, but somewhere along the line we have to start trusting to be able to work together. So we don't win the first game and lose a few points (remember it is just a game), but maybe by the second challenge we will be able to trust each other more. I'm sending in my bid. Trust!!!!

[Gelit]

Cheese...you are some kind of different. Anyway - I don't trust anyone... or do I? What to do, What to do. Do you really think everyone is going to be on the same page here?

[360]

The one point bid is a good idea. I looks like most of us agree on that. good luck all.

[TGR]

Do you all really think that everyone is going to bid 1 point. I don't. Nice idea but hey you can't trust everyone even those you know. It would be nice if everyone did think logically but hey thats life.

TGR

[GUITARPRO#1]

Hi everyone.
I don't know how this is all going to work out. It would be hard to find out if 50 people are all going to go the same way so right now it is up in the air.

[GUITARPRO#1]

Hi again,
To add to my point I sensed some tension in a few post, I wonder if this would affect the agreement that two players could have in the game. I know this is a game of logic just like the example puzzle that we recieved in class.

[Spanglish]

I cant believe that so many people can be so ignorant thinking that others in the class, people we dont know, can be trusted.. It's just a game so those who want to throw away their points, have fun. The rest of us will do the best we can to win the game, if we lose as least we lost trying and not placing trust in people we dont know. There is a place for trust, but this isnt the place. All those who say we should bid 1 point.... and all those who believe it really show why Utah is the place that con artists come to get rich off of other people. p.s.-I'm not from Utah so maybe thats why I disagree with the 'trust' perspective.

[firemeboy]

Still haven't heard from these people:

dazedandconfused
Beibei
frank
Hondo
Jaamal
Fatex
El Galan
JoBlack
Chinaman
Larin
Dark Legionaire

I'll give you an opportunity to send it in at class, then we are going over the results.

[firemeboy]

I'm going to put up the second challenge. Here we go.

Challenge # 2: Takers Keepers…
Deadline – Must have decision to me by Sunday, Midnight. Again, you can change your vote up to that point. Depending on how the discussion goes, you may want to.

Ok, there is a lot at stake on this game. You have the ability to win quite a bit if you stick together. Here are the rules.

Since nobody gained any points last time, I am going to give everybody 500 points. Free and clear. You don’t have to do anything.

Well, except for one small thing…

You have to decide if you want to keep what you have. Or try and take what other people have…You will do this by sending me an e-mail that says either of the following:

Take Other’s.

Keep Own.

If everybody keeps what they have, then everybody gets 500 points. That is the end of the story.

However, if somebody decides to take, well… that is when things get tricky. Here is the run down for the chart below. The first two columns are the numbers of takers and keepers. The next two columns are what the takers and keepers would receive. So for example, if one person ‘took’, and everybody else ‘kept’, then the people who kept would still receive part of the 500, but the taker would receive much more.
Of course everybody would take then, right? Well, if you do then the group will lose out as a whole. If we have a lot of takers, then nobody wins, as is evident the farther down the chart you look.

code:

---

 








Take       Keep         Takers get      Keepers get


0(%)          100(%)          0               500


10             90             2500            400


20             80             1000            300 


30             70             500             200


40             60             0               100


50             50            -100              0


60             40            -200             -200 


70             30            -300             -400   


80             20            -500             -600 


90             10            -700             -800


10             0             -900             -1000


 

---

Whether or not you take or keep will be forever kept a secret (at least until the game is over), but you do get to have a discussion period. Remember, only by cooperating can you come out ahead, so you must work together, and vote together. By sticking together, you can all come out ahead.

So, enough from me. I will give you until Sunday at midnight to send in your votes.
Discuss what you want to do!

[karrots]

I think this is very interesting that you say no one gained any points from the last challenge. Does that mean everyone bid the same amount?

Karrots