Women 101

[Lepton]

Why doesn't this course exist?~snogs ALL the women~

[This message has been edited by Lepton (edited 06-16-2003 12:17 PM).]

[Chuck]

No one understands women?

[jesternl]

they can't find a teacher?

[Mackay]

I'll teach, or at least answer questions, if you're willing to ask them!!

[casinopete]

and your credentials?

[Mackay]

I'm a woman!

Also, I'm a woman who thinks more like a man, and am therefore a traitor to my kind and all too willing to spill our secrets.

[casinopete]

Pfft. If you think more like a man, what surety is there you know women?

[Mackay]

See first credential.

[Lepton]

On girlfriends:

What's the best way to avoid or respond to "I look like a pig today"?

What's the best reaction to "Your friends think that I boss you around too much." What's the best reaction to "Your friends are a bad influence on you, I don't want you to hang around with them anymore." What if these come in the same lecture discussion?

On women in general:

What are some good characteristics in a guy? Bad characteristics? (in a general case)

Is geekiness cute or just annoying?

Is the feminist movement an effective piece of the past, or an effective piece of the present? (ie. are the still significant discrepencies between the living conditions, rights, etc of men and women?)
~snogs Mackay~ she totally rocks, btw
Do women generally understand the power that they have over men?

[Vinny]

I can teach a bit.

on how to get burn and heartbroken by the women

[Mackay]

What's the best way to avoid or respond to "I look like a pig today"? Deny, deny, deny! Telling her you don't notice any difference will say to her that you think she looks like a pig all the time. Agreeing with her, while usually a solid tactic, will only cause anger. Either deny it, or tell her that she always look beautiful to you. It's tacky, but in such situations, it's the only way you can get out of it without having to bear hours of cold, angry (albeit peaceful) silence.

What's the best reaction to "Your friends think that I boss you around too much." What's the best reaction to "Your friends are a bad influence on you, I don't want you to hang around with them anymore." What if these come in the same lecture discussion? Wow, this is a hard one. Um.... Firstly, you need to decide where your priorities lie. If you'd rather be with the girl than hang out with your friends, meekly submit - but I dobt this is usually the case. I know it wouldn't be for me. Don't get angry, it just fuels her. Just tell her reasonably that, although you love her, you can't be forced into choosing between her and your friends. (As for the first statement on its own, if they said it then it's probably true. Just act surprised and try not to respond to it at all. )

What are some good characteristics in a guy? Bad characteristics? (in a general case) I'll be as general as I can, but I'm probably mainly speaking for myself.
Good characteristics - Honesty ranks highly. For me, I almost like complete frank honesty, but this is not always necessary. Just be as truthful as you can, but also use tact. Now tact is another good one. Like the age-old question: "does my bum look big in this?" If it really, really does, it doesn't mean you have to say yes. Just go for something like, "you look fine, but I much prefer you in that [insert item of clothing that you like]." Also, you have to have a good sense of humour, but what is considered funny varies from girl to girl. Good listeners, because, well, we like to talk. But you also have to be able to talk back. More specifically, I really like intelligent guys, or at least ones who can hold an interesting and intelligent conversation. The one other really general one I can think of is mystery. Not as in being completely mysterious and not telling her anything, but by making her want to find out more.
Then there are some girls who just go for looks.
Bad qualities - Um... Guys who are too full of themselves. This can take many forms, so I can't be more specific. Sometimes it's more subtle. I once dated a guy who thought he was somehow morally superior to the rest of society. He wasn't one of those dumb poser types or anything, but it irked me once I found out about that side of his character. I really don't like guys who are submissive, absolute pushovers. I mean, sure, sometimes we want to make some decisions. but if we say "I don't know, you decide", we probably mean it. Just take some initiative! Dumb guys... I can't stand dumb guys. Guys who take the "mystery" thing too far and don't ever talk about themselves. On a shallower note, bad breath and body odour. I'm sure I could think of more, but I'm doing this on the spot.

Is geekiness cute or just annoying? Ohhhhhhh.... *makes Homer Simpson drooling noise* I have an absolute geek FETISH. Pretty much every guy I have been really seriously interested has been a scrawny geek. Once again, it's a matter of pure personal taste, but... ohhhhhhhhh.

Is the feminist movement an effective piece of the past, or an effective piece of the present? (ie. are the still significant discrepencies between the living conditions, rights, etc of men and women?) There are still discrepancies, certainly, but I believe the feminist movement is more a piece of the past than anything of huge relevance today. There are still problems, women still don't get equal wages to men in a lot of fields, but whenever I look at feminist material these days (although this could just be in Australia) it always seems to be about the right for women to have abortions. This alienates me morally, although I can see the need in rare circumstances. There are also other issues I have with it - it is fair enough, and desirable, even, that women seek equality with men, but it almost seems in today's society that they are vying for advantages rather than an equal standing. This applies to a lot of issues separately from feminism also, but I shouldn't get started, on account of this is a women thread.

Do women generally understand the power that they have over men? We definitely understand it. I don't know if we fully comprehend its extent. Some women use that kind of thing as a means to manipulate... yes, we definitely know about it.

[Mackay]

whoa... long post.

[casinopete]

How, precisely, is "tact" different from "dishonesty" (your examples included)?

[Vinny]

p.s. Subscribe to Maxim mag. They're experts. Their photo-qualities and articles are top notch, to boot.

[Mackay]

heh.

Good question. Like I said, it's more about encouraging her to take a path other than the bad one, without just telling her flat out. My answer to the one about the looking like a pig is in complete contradiction to this, I know. But a lot of the time we say stuff simply because we're looking for reassurance that we really don't look like pigs. In these cases, it's important to identify that this is the true motive, and to fulfil it. Besides, you're NEVER supposed to think bad things about us, so it shouldn't be a problem.

[Vinny]

Originally posted by Mackay:

---

Is geekiness cute or just annoying? Ohhhhhhh.... *makes Homer Simpson drooling noise* I have an absolute geek FETISH. Pretty much every guy I have been really seriously interested has been a scrawny geek. Once again, it's a matter of pure personal taste, but... ohhhhhhhhh.

---

I think you'd just brighten the lives of every male on the site, Mackay

[casinopete]

So then lying is okay if it makes people feel better?

[Mackay]

OK, well, like I said, I'd rather just hear it. I'd like to think that mine is the general case, but I've observed many of my female friends doing this to get the desired response, and when they don't being all upset about it. It depends on the person. I'm not saying you should lie. If you really think that she looks awful, then you shouldn't tell her she looks great. On the other hand, you shouldn't just say "you look awful". So no, I'm not saying that at all.

[casinopete]

That may not be precisely lying, but skirting a direct question like that is surely deception, which is just as bad, since it's the same thing, only with a veneer of legalistic justification slathered upon it.

[Mackay]

*shrug* You should probably date me then. I don't know any guys who adhere so rigidly to the truth as to hurt people unnecessarily, and I don't know many girls who appreciate it. Admirable qualities though.

[Mackay]

And I don't see how saying "I prefer you in that dress" as opposed to "You look like crap" is a lie, or even a deception. It's still true.

[Lepton]

Does Chivalry live?

Which of the following would you expect from the average guy? When on a date? Which would be appreciated, but not expected? Which are extrenuous?
for starters...

Holding a door open (arriving first at the door, holding open until you pass through)

Holding a door open for another person

Opening and closing your car door

When dropping you off, not leaving until certain that you're safely inside

Standing when you enter the room

Standing at a dinner table until you sit

Ordering food for you

Paying the bill (and tips, if applicable), paying for the ticket, etc.

Walking on the road side when on a sidewalk

Giving others at most cursory recognition when obviously with you

Always have reservations

Always have multiple reservations, to be flexible

Dress slightly better than what would be worn if alone

Have the radio tuned to your favourite station (or a CD/tape you like in the deck)

[casinopete]

Had I a girlfriend who asked me, "Does my bum look big in this?" (and if her bum did indeed "look big in that") I would bust up laughing, then say something along the lines of, "A little, but you're still damn sexy." And since we're shopping together, or she's trying on clothes, or whatever the specific situation is, we've been together long enough that she knows I mean it.

There's no need to avoid the question, and I really think doing so is the sign of some sort of relationship flaws.

[Antrax]

[Antrax]

~bangs head against the wall~
Maybe I should be the class instructor, but call it Backbone 101.
Antrax

------------------
"If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"

[Mackay]

[Lepton]

Antrax, there's so many cheap shots one could take at you it's beyond the point of being funny and into the realm of Pika-esque.

Pete, I know a few girls who have low enough self confidence some days that they just really want to hear that they're beautiful or whatnot. It's not really a relationship flaw. It might be a "I've just dated a guy who only took Backbone 101" flaw, though. :-P

[This message has been edited by Lepton (edited 06-16-2003 02:14 PM).]

[Mackay]

Holding a door open (arriving first at the door, holding open until you pass through) OK, being a paranoid schizophrenic, I have this little thing where I HATE having anyone walking behind me, and I always wait to go through a door last. But in general, it's a very nice gesture. I wouldn't expect it, but I would appreciate it.
Holding a door open for another person Once again, good.
Opening and closing your car door One of my guy friends does this for me, and I've found out that I love it.
When dropping you off, not leaving until certain that you're safely inside Once again, nice but not necessary. The first time anyone ever did that for me, I came back outside to see if there was anything wrong. It freaks me out a little.
Standing when you enter the room Actually, I'd never thought about that until now, but I think that's great.
Standing at a dinner table until you sit Unnecessary. Not too bad, but if you then proceeded to stand every time I did, and sit down only after I did, that would be overkill and, frankly, make me uncomfortable.
Ordering food for you Good only if you know what I like. But I like it when guys do that.
Paying the bill (and tips, if applicable), paying for the ticket, etc. I'd rather pay for myself if I can, but the gesture is always appreciated and I'd let you pay if you insisted.
Walking on the road side when on a sidewalk I pretty much expect this.
Giving others at most cursory recognition when obviously with you Unnecessary.
Always have reservations Unnecessary for me, I prefer to be impulsive.
Always have multiple reservations, to be flexible Now that's just cool. Do you guys DO that?
Dress slightly better than what would be worn if alone I expect it, but not in the way that I think it's what SHOULD be done, it just generally happens that way.
Have the radio tuned to your favourite station (or a CD/tape you like in the deck) Overkill. But still good.

[Lepton]

Yeah, I've done the multiple reservations thing on a few occasions.
In a smaller city, it's not something one can get away with doing very often, though.

more...

Always drive (if appropriate)

Know of a good spot to eat, bowl, walk around, etc.

Able how to fix anything

Able to open even the toughest jar

Able to carry you piggy-back-style indefinately

Willing to clear social calender, even just for something relatively simple

Always understand what you say without clarification

Doesn't look at other women when with you

[Antrax]

Lepton, nothing about having a backbone means you can't be a nice person. But it does mean you have to accept you have something to offer, as well. The dependence has to be mutual or... I dunno, I'll come over and kick your arse.
Antrax

------------------
"If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"

[Mackay]

Always drive (if appropriate) Well, it's always nice. So yes. (btw, I can't drive, so I'm a little biased.)
Know of a good spot to eat, bowl, walk around, etc. Always helpful.
Able how to fix anything Um.... it's not really expected. But it is good.
Able to open even the toughest jar In general, I'm sure that'd be great. In practise, my guy friends get me to open stuff on account of my strong pianist hands.
Able to carry you piggy-back-style indefinately Sure, why not?
Willing to clear social calender, even just for something relatively simple I don't think so. This goes back to what Antrax said, that if a guy is willing to forsake everything else for a girl, there are problems. For example, I wouldn't expect my boyfriend to miss a Whitlams concert to paint my toenails.
Always understand what you say without clarification Well, we do expect this, but it rarely happens.
Doesn't look at other women when with you A desirable quality.

[Vinny]

The right way to have an intelligent discussion with a girl: see casinopete.
The wrong way to have an intelligent discussion with a girl: see antrax.

()

my question: What's the best approach to picking up a total stranger?

[casinopete]

fireman's carry

[Mackay]

lol, I like Pete's answer.

As for a more serious one, I've never been one for picking up/being picked up by strangers, but I've noticed some things that work. Because you're going for the full-on approach, the best way to go about it seems to be acting friendly, and forward. Not to the point of sleaze, but still very forward. This being said, if she expresses disinterest, back off immediately, because otherwise she'll just think you're a jerk. If the initial signs seem promising, just try making casual physical contact and the like. I don't really know about the rest... just let things flow naturally from that point, I guess. ...and good luck!

[Vinny]

please clarify "casual physical contact"

[Ghost Post]

Why do chicks hate me?

[Lepton]

They don't hate you, it's just that guys love you so much the chicks don't have a chance.~snogs El~

[This message has been edited by Lepton (edited 06-16-2003 05:20 PM).]

[Mackay]

please clarify "casual physical contact" Just something nice like resting your hand on her arm etc to begin with. Things can get more intimate if events develop in that direction. Like I said, you've just got to go with what seems comfortable and natural after that.

Why do chicks hate me? Now now, I'm sure they don't hate you. Maybe they're intimidated by your utter and complete coolness. Or maybe you just haven't located any decent ones yet. Or maybe it's because you're an asshole!

[Ningal]

[jesternl]

What is the best pickup/opening line ever used on you?
And the one you used on someone else?