Ask about Anime

[i_h8_evil_stuff]

Hrmmm...

I must've forgotten. I'll either have to have you explain it to me, or I'll have to borrow the whole series again from my friend.

Edit: I think this is my first non-FRSP, non-game thread to reach page 2.

[This message has been edited by i_h8_evil_stuff (edited 03-21-2004 04:34 PM).]

[Vinny]

Ih8evilstuff, Do you know who Osamu Tezuka is?

If you don't, then you don't know much about Anime. Look him up and read up on him.

Re: Big Eyes in Anime.

Tezuka, is considered by most to be "the father of anime", in its current style. Everyone knows that Animation and Animated movies were first created by Walt Disney. Tezuka adores Disney. Love him. Idolize him. When he start his first few comic books and animated movies, he draw his characters with big eyes to pay homage to Walt Disney, who is often carcitured with big eyes. The style caught on, and people started using it.

Re: Why cartoon of nakid women instead of real women.

The simplicity in the drawing, cleanliness, suggestiveness, are often the appeal for most anime addict to real p0rn. There's something to be said about the sexiness of an Anime drawing vs. the sexiness of an real photograph.

Re: Why enjoy anime over real live action movie?

In addition to what ihate and casinopete have said, there's also the format of Anime (and animation in genenral) that is so much more exhilarating to watch. The freedom of the camera, of physics, of the characters, that most live action movies lack.

Also, a lot of the subjects deal in Anime are Sci/Fi. If you are a Sci/Fi lover, you are bound to be hook into Anime after watching a few classic one (e.g. Metropolis, Akira, Ghost in the Shells, Cowboy Bebobs).

For the people who wants to try Anime without all the grahical sex and violents, there are GREAT Anime out there, some surpasing real live action movies, especially for Kids.

All of the Studio Ghibli films are AWESOME for kids, and adult alike (My Neighbor Totoro, Spirited Away, Kiki's Delivery Service; You can find these at your local blockbuster.)

Anime shouldn't be associated with graphical extreme sex and violence. That's Hentai, not Anime. Anime is just another medium, with its different genre of movies and cartoon series. I would descibe Anime as Japan originated style of animation, and that's it. Not cartoon with lots of tenticles. Nor cartoons with big eye characters. Nor cartoon with extreme violence. Nor cartoon with gratutious sex.



[This message has been edited by Vinny (edited 03-22-2004 12:24 AM).]

[Coyote]

Originally posted by i_h8_evil_stuff:

---

FINALLY! AN ACTUAL ANIMÉ QUESSTION!

---

* bristles just a bit *

What--asking the difference between Anime and Manga doesn't count? Asking just what is and what isn't Anime doesn't count? (A question, I might add, that you didn't address very well.)

I hate to be uncharitable, but I'm getting the impression that this whole thread is being used less as an opportunity to teach those few interested but uneducated folk who wander in here seeking knowledge, as it is for an opportunity to talk about whatever cool Anime's you might have happened to watch.

Just how much do you really know about the history of Anime, the different approaches to it, its current focus, and the direction it may be heading? And how quickly will you drop any inquiries into such matters as soon as someone brings up some particular episode of Neon Genesis Evangelion?

[extropalopakettle]

[i_h8_evil_stuff]

By "FINALLY...", I meant a question about a particuar Animé series that I've seen, which is what I've asked for originally.

Originally posted by me:

---

...so if anyone needs some explinations or has any questions about anything I've seen,...

---

This is why I expected this thread to sink like a rock. I will, however, answer any questions about animé to the best of my ability. The truth is, I don't know much. I'm just an animé fan, willing to give some help to any that may be confused.

[Vegetable]

What's the worst thing you've ever done? Sorry, couldn't resist

[Vinny]

I am also a great Anime fan, I h8evilstuff. Anime rules!

The recent Disney animated movies are crappy compare to the great one being churned out in Japan recently, even though they also have their share of crappy one. I love Pixar works, but I hope that hand drawn Animations will stick around for a while, and not be replaced by fully cgi animations.

I can answer some historical Anime questions if there are any, and if ih8evilstuff doesn't mind. I know a little about it, and I can always do the work of researching, since I personally want to learn more about this art.

[casinopete]

You do Disney a diservice, Vinny. They've put out several very good pictures - Aladdin, Beauty and the Beast, and the Emperor's New Groove, to name just a few.

[Vinny]

Pete, you are right. Those were great! Those were the golden Disney days, the Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast rank up there as the greatest movies of all time in my list.

I still haven't shaken the bad tarnish of Disney the "money making machine" during the last decade, after that one Disney guy responsible left Disney. I forgot his name, he was responsible for getting alot of those great movies make. Recent animated movies by Disney, though fairly good, lack those Great quality, i.e. Tarzan, Pocahontas, Hunchback, Hercules, Mulan, Tarzan. I did love the Emperor's New Groove. Atlantis: The Lost Empire, Lilo and Stich, Treasure Planet, not so much. I still haven't see Brother Bear, but I am guessing it's just another "fun" movie. You enjoy watching it, but you dont cherish it.

[This message has been edited by Vinny (edited 03-22-2004 01:13 PM).]

[extropalopakettle]

Has anyone seen Spirited Away? I read such fantastic reviews of it (by both critics and ordinary folk), but was rather unimpressed. I haven't seen the original Japanese language version with subtitles, but the Disney translation, which I've read is quite untrue to the original, which may account for my disappointment. I mean, it was interesting and enjoyable, but not the profound and complex film I read the reviews about.

BTW, is that considered anime?

[Vinny]

(Sorry of Hijacking this thread to discuss animated features in general, ih8evil.)

My list of moment is animated movies that just Transcend the movie experience. Those that really touch me:

Hunchback of Notredame, Disney

The little girl and Quasi near the end, where she touches his face.

The Little Mermaid, Disney

Ariel singing "Part of the World" in her treasure cave.

Spirited Away, Hayao Miyazaki.

Sen's train ride to meet Yubaba's sister.

Beauty and the Beast

The mob traveling through the wood to the Beast's castle.

Osamu Tezuka's Metropolis, Rintaro

last scene at the top of the tower.

Cowboy Bebob, Tengoku no tobira, Shinichirô Watanabe and Hiroyuki Okiura

Spike walking through the market.

Grave of the Fireflies, Isao Takahata

Montages of the cave and the surround area where the little girl had played in.

Prince of Egypt, DreamWorks

Moses leading his people out of the city to the sea, the parting of the sea.

That's all I can think of for now. What are some of yours?



[This message has been edited by Vinny (edited 03-27-2004 03:09 AM).]

[Vinny]

Extro, Spirited Away is definitely Anime. See my definition of Anime a few posts above. I love that movie. Maybe you have to watch it in the theater to fully appreciate it, in Japanese with English subtitles. Sen voice in the English dubbed was a too high pitch and annoying.

Spirited Away is partially tied to Disney's Alice in Wonderland. Miyazaki's version of Wonderland. It shows how a wimpy little girl grow up and mature in a wack out world. I love how her general love of all things, her courage, and sense of responsibilites slowly materialize. The movie also has a lot of reference to Japanese's culture, but you don't have to get them to enjoy the movie. There are so many little details in the movie. That scene with Sen descending the long wooden stairs near the beginning, the last scene where Sen paused after exiting the tunnel without look back, the Bathhouse, the train ride.

I guess we just have different taste in movie, Extro.



[This message has been edited by Vinny (edited 03-22-2004 01:44 PM).]

[extropalopakettle]

I liked the movie. My 4 year old daughter loves it.

[Vinny]

You'll have to pay attention to the subtle details to really be affected by it, I guess. Like

[The way she acts toward no face during their meeting, the hurt she felt when the dragonboy pretends he doesn't know her, the way she acted toward the Big Baby, how she force fed the dragon after he was hurt (that scene was Scary to watch the first time for me!), her behavior at the test where she has to pick her parents, all those little details.]

Also, if you buy or rent the current DVD, they have both a Japanese sound track and English sound track, and different subtitles.

[This message has been edited by Vinny (edited 03-22-2004 02:11 PM).]

[i_h8_evil_stuff]

Alright. *Kicks thread.* No more Disney. Disney is the suxors.

I've been meaning to see Spirited Away sometime, but I just haven't found enough free time to go out and rent it.

Thanks to Vinny again for helping me with answering some questions. I also have a question for you: Subbed or Dubbed?

[Ghost Post]

animated movie that transcends the movie experience:
The Fox and the Hound

[Vinny]

Subbed, all the waaaaaaay!

You lose the Director's original "feel" of the movie with Dubbed, no matter how well it was done.

[not-so-anime-savvy]

[i_h8_evil_stuff]

Gah. I like dubbed, but I'm more likely to watch the series with subs the second time around. I guess its just easier to understand for me.

[zeek]

[Digglu]

i'm with h8 on the dubbing, if it's FX, anyway (if you guys don't know what i'm talking about, FX is a company, among a few others, that translates the japanese to english and packages it. they do pretty good work)

[Vinny]

Extro, I recommend that you get My Neighbor Totoro and Kiki's Delivery Service for your 4-year old. She'll love them! For yourself, get Grave of the Fireflies. It's an incredibly sad movie, but very well told and is awesome in so many ways. Don't miss out on it.

Et all, if you want to find out what I mean by a lot of Japanese Anime being far better than the recent Disney's films, rent those two. Also try Metropolis and Battle Angle's Alita.

For humorous, cute, sweet TV series, try Ranma 1/2. The premise is kinda weird, and lame, but the series itself is pretty funny. The first few anyway. They get kinda complacent later on.

For stronger and more mature theme, try Ninja's Scroll and Akira. Be wary though, they are not for the faint of heart. There are extreme violence and graphic sexuality in those two. Don't touch them unless you're prepare for that kind of thing.

ETA: If you get the Spirited Away DVD there's a great bonus disc that show behind the scene of Studio Ghibli, and Miyaki and his team at work on Spirited Away. It's low produced Camcorder, very personal, almost like a home movie. Showed a lot of great stuff to the art of Animation in general. And you get to see Miyaki in action! He's a great man. I would love to work for him, if I can draw.

[This message has been edited by Vinny (edited 03-27-2004 03:03 AM).]

[Digglu]

add perfect blue to that mature list, it's a great anime psychological thriller

[This message has been edited by Digglu (edited 03-27-2004 07:06 AM).]

[Bicho the Inhaler]

I've never seen Ranma 1/2 the show, but I've read a few of the comics. Be forewarned, it's very silly, but it's also pretty cute.

[i_h8_evil_stuff]

...and it tends to get a little repetitive around season 5.

[mudster]

Wow an anime/manga related thread!

I'll help answer some of your questions too. But mostly either older anime or manga related

Animes I've watched:
Ghost in the Shell Movie
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (first few episodes)
Akira
Martian Successor Nadesico
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure (art is really... not japanese style, but it's a great watch)
Rurounni Kenshin (original Japanese dub w/ English sub)
.Hack//Sign
Azumanga Daioh
FLCL (4 eps)
Love Hina
Slayers
Saber Marionette Series
Lots more that I can't remember

Mangas I've read:
Shonen Manga - Too many. Give me a name and I'll tell you if I've read it.
Shoujo Manga - Karekano, Milk Crown.

[LunarsRevenge]

Some good anime are as follows:

Dragon Ball Z
Dragon Ball GT
The Guyver
Raxephon
Berserk

That is just a few there are many more.

[casinopete]

Wow.

I've never heard of Raxephon, and I've never seen Berserk (though I've actually heard good things about it), but the Guyver is not very good, and I've never heard of anyone over ten years of age who didn't recognize Dragonball Z and GT as complete and utter drek.

If you like them, though, I do have a suggestion. You should try watching Yu Yu Hakusho or Flame of Recca. They have much of the same style of "character development," but actually have an interestingly told story and a pace that doesn't leave you wondering if anything really happened in the last month.

[Digglu]

hm now i'm getting the urge to list the ones i've seen...

Series:
Evangelion
Witch Hunter Robin
Excel Saga (Daitenzen Go! )
.hack//sign + liminality + gift (a hilarious parody, btw)
Yu Yu Hakusho
Cowboy Bebop
Inuyasha (a moderate portion)
Big O (most of it, anyway)
Dragonball/Z/some of GT

Movies:
Perfect Blue
Akira
Ghost in the Shell
Evangelion movies, Bebop movie
Spirited away
Princess Mononoke
Ninja Scroll
Iria (it's 6 episodes...not quite a series, not quite a movie)

and smatterings of others...like lain...man that's weird...yup

[This message has been edited by Digglu (edited 03-30-2004 08:01 PM).]

[i_h8_evil_stuff]

Muds, you should really see the last 2 eps of FLCL.

Oh, and Diggs: HAIL IL PALAZZO!!!

[mudster]

For Flame of Recca, I really suggest the manga. Good pacing, nice story. (I've watched all 56 eps of the anime too)

Lain, is a superb piece of storytelling, albeit incomprehensible at times until you've seen it multiple times.

Also which comes to mind, has anybody seen Trigun. The anime and manga depicts Vash as 2 similarly different people.

Also, there is also a T.A.T.U. anime coming out soon called T.A.T.U. Paragate or something like that. Try to google for it if you'r a fan.

[This message has been edited by mudster (edited 03-31-2004 12:02 AM).]

[mudbuck]

My friend said he stopped watching Dragon Ball Z when he realised that nine-tenths of the time the people were acting constipated.

------------------
"Look, they have low-fat snacks, and either people don't buy them or they eat too many of them."
~Phil and Henry Show

[casinopete]

I am lame.
I feel provoked to add what I can remember seeing, though I expect no one will really be interested.

I have seen/read:

.hack//SIGN
3x3 Eyes
Akira
Appleseed (manga only)
Battle Angel (manga only)
Big-O
Blue Seed
Boogiepop Phantom (a few episodes)
Card Captor Sakura (a few episodes)
Cowboy Bebop (the series)
Devil Hunter Yokho
Digimon (a few episodes)
Dragon Ball (inc “Z,” “GT,” and a couple movies)
El Hazard (Wanderers series, a few episodes of another)
End of Evangelion
Escaflowne (most of the series and the movie
One of the Final Fantasy movies
Flame of Recca
Fushigi Yuugi (several episodes of two arcs)
Galaxy Express 999
Ghost in the Shell (anime and manga)
Golden Boy (a few episodes)
Great Teacher Onizuka (a few episodes, a few issues of the manga)
G Gundam (a few episodes)
Gunsmith Cats (manga only, a couple issues)
Hikaru no Go (manga only)
Initial D (most of two seasons)
InuYasha
The Irresponsible Captain Tyler (a few episodes)
Kikaider (more than a few episodes)
Kiki’s Delivery Service
Laputa – Castle in the Sky
Legend of Black Heaven (a few episodes)
Love Hina
Lupin III
Macross (Plus? Not sure which series)
Magic Knight Rayearth (a couple episodes)
Magic User’s Club (a couple episodes)
Magical Girl Pretty Sammy (a couple episodes)
Mobile Suit Gundam
Monster Rancher
My Neighbor Totoro
Neon Genesis Evangelion (inc. the movie)
Nie A_7
Ninja Scroll
Outlaw Star (a few episodes)
Patlabor (movies 1 and 2, part of the series)
The Ping Pong Club (a few episodes)
Pokemon (much of several seasons, two of the movies)
Princess Mononoke
Project A-Ko (2 movies?)
Ranma 1/2 (much of the series and 2 movies)
Record of Lodoss War
Revolutionary Girl Utena (series and movie)
Rurouni Kenshin
Sailor Moon (way too much)
Samurai Pizza Cats
Serial Experiments: Lain
Slayers (several series and movies)
Spirited Away
Street Fighter (one of the movies, not sure which)
Tenchi (several series, inc. OVA, and 3 movies)
Those Who Hunt Elves (a couple episodes)
Trigun
Vampire Hunter D
Witch Hunter Robin
Yu-Gi-Oh
Yu Yu Hakusho

and soon/desperately intend to see:

Azumanga Daioh
Grave of the Fireflies

I strongly recommend:

Cowboy Bebop
Hikaru no Go (the manga; I haven't seen the anime, and suspect it doesn't hold up)
Princess Mononoke (any Ghibli, really, but this is my fave)
Patlabor the Movie (the 2nd is also ok, but I only strongly recommend the 1st)
Serial Experiments: Lain

[Vinny]

Hey casinopete, I am interested!

Me and Huey are going to get "Perfect Blue" from Netflix because we haven't seen it yet, from Digglu's recommendation. I've seen a bunch I recognised on your list but still haven't seen. There are so much mucks out there so having a list of "good" Anime is definitely very appreciated. I am interested in seeing these, tell me if you recommend them:

.hack//SIGN
3x3 eyes
Galaxy Express 999
Love Hina (isn't this like young chickies Sailormoonish?)
Trigun

Tell me what you think of Grave of the Fireflies once you have seen it, I'll be interested in your opinion of it. I know a lot of people who think it's a master piece, but also a lot who totally hated it.

[This message has been edited by Vinny (edited 03-31-2004 12:34 PM).]

[casinopete]

.hack//SIGN:

The Characters are fantastic. They're very well developed, and you grow attached to quite a few of them. The world (by which I mean setting, not "The World," which is the name of the setting) isn't really that creative, but it you've ever played a MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game), you will find it familiar and funny - lots of in jokes. The story is okay - again not too creative, but certainly not bad either. The music is wonderful. The animation is hard to evaluate - the art is good, but peculiarly, there just isn't much animation, because the most notable fact about the series is that it is overwhelmingly driven by conversation. Something along the lines of 80% of the screen time is characters chatting. Sometimes they chat and pace. Whether you end up liking the show is almost entirely dependent on whether this pace and format suits you (it suited me - I like it a lot).

3x3 Eyes:

This is a must see. The characters are brilliant (and Pai is sooooo freakin' cute), the world is brilliant, the story is brilliant, the music (as best I can remember it) is brilliant, and the animation is ... what's the word I'm looking for? ah, yes... brilliant! There's a funny break between episodes 4 and 5 (of 7), with a change in animation style and general feel of the story, and the last three aren't quite as brilliant as the first four, but they're still so good it doesn't matter.

Galaxy Express 999:

I waffled a bit over including these on my list. I've seen it, but so long ago I only remember bits of scenes. I cannot properly inform about this one. (I remember liking it, though.)

Love Hina:

NOT like Sailor Moon. Interesting that you had something like this in your mind, though, because it does bear a strong resemblance to the Tenchi shows. Imagine the same pleasant and funny/silly romantic issues in a slightly more prosaic setting - no demons, no intergalactic officers, no super-scientists with god-like powers - instead they worry about grades and classwork. Characters: excellent; world: ok; story: ok; music: ok; animation: good, but not great. Overall: the sort of show that's certainly fun to watch, but no need to rush out and see it.

Trigun:

I've seen most of this, but not all. It may be better to get details from someone else (mudster?). Hmm. Characters: good; world: stu-freakin'-pendous!; story: good; animation: split (the art/style is very good, the animation itself is a bit off); music: I didn't really notice - I guess that means "just okay?" Overall I'd say Trigun suffers from the first half of it being silly and episodic. Again you can think of Tenshi - the way the first half of the episodes are silly and fun, but don't drive the story at all, but Trigun suffers a bit more, because when the real story arc begins, it is quite serious/dramatic, so the shift from sillyness is rather jarring. Overall: certainly see it sometime, but you should get to Cowboy Bebop and SE:Lain first. fnord.

[i_h8_evil_stuff]

I've just finished watching Witch Hunter Robin.

Yeah.

[extropalopakettle]

I just ordered DVD's of:
1) My Neighbor Totoro
2) Kiki's Delivery Service
3) Grave of the Fireflies
4) Wings of Honnemaise

1 & 2 on Vinny's recommendation, plus corroborating reviews I've read.
3 based on reviews I've read.
4 was recommended ages ago by Internet Stranger, for some reason when I brought up the film (not anime) Octobber Sky.

I had FLCL (Fooly Cooly?) in my "shopping cart" based on what I'd read, then realized it was was just the first two of six episodes I'd read about (the last three of which got better reviews than the first three), and at the price of $20 something per DVD (2 episodes) was a bit steep, so I nixed it.

I'll let you know what I think of the above. BTW, I'm expecting 3 and 4 won't be suitable for the kiddies ... we'll see.

[i_h8_evil_stuff]

extro: FLCL was worth every penny.

*I'm extremely biased, as FLCL is my favorite anime series I've seen.
**I didn't actually pay anything for FLCL, I got it as a gift. I would've paid $20 per disc, though.

Edit: There are only three discs, remember. Gainax made FLCL a 6 episode series at one episode per month, rather than 26 episodes at one a week.

[This message has been edited by i_h8_evil_stuff (edited 03-31-2004 10:20 PM).]

[mudster]

Re: Trigun
If you read the manga before watching the anime (like me), then it might be somewhat different. The mangaka (manga creator) is Yashirou Nightow, a fan of american comics, eps Spawn. If you look into the cahracter design, it's littered with tributes to Spawn. For example, Vash's Cape, The Gun Ho Gang, etc.

The beginning episodes were to build a premise of sorts to the world of trigun. The history, etc, with lots of comedy. Lots of it. But when the time comes, Vash becomes a really serious (but somewhat pacifist) hero. And he kicks ass so hard.

Story: Having read Trigun and Trigun Maximum, I must say that the anime tries not to follow the original medium. Stories are close, some gags and dialogues are reused, but certain key scenes are inserted or removed, or altered. I suggest getting both the anime and the manga for the full enjoyment of trigun. However being a futuristic story, it still has the western feel to it, and even feels like it was set in some alternative western movie.

The music is similar kinda jazzy, kinda rockish and a little western to fit the theme. I enjoyed it throughly.

PS> the mangaka also created the designs Gungrave, the game.

Re: Love Hina

Get the manga. The anime doesn't do the manga justice! The gags are better, and so is the fanservice And storywise much much better too.

Re: Berserk

(Anime) Blood, gore and violence. With a story. Not just a man on a nonsensical killing spree. The story develops very well. Keep out of reach from children. Unless you plan to let your kids see animated pr0n.

(Manga) Recently translated by Dark Horse comics in paperback version. Also, there's the scanlations available on the net. Click Here!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Some extra stuff. From the link above, I really suggest you get and read 20th Century Boys. No matter what your liking is, it is a superb piece of story telling. The download's a bit hefty tho.

[casinopete]

extro:

If you watch My Neighbor Totoro with your children, make sure you distract them when the Cat-bus first appears. It's... umm... pretty well endowed.