AIM Diplomacy (and some other Dip related stuff)

[mith]

Antrax and I have been talking about this, so I thought I'd go ahead and start a thread.

We're thinking about trying to run a game of Diplomacy over the course of one day. We'd all get on AIM, have a chat room for the purpose of revealing results, and conduct negotiations through IMs. Obviously this could be fairly time-consuming, so we would probably do it on some Saturday where we can all agree to meet for several hours at least. If we don't finish, we can always continue the next week.

So who's interested? I know I am, and Antrax is. cuban smoker has also expressed interest over on mafiascum.net. If we can get up to 5 at least (for the Anc. Med. variant), plus someone to take orders (we don't even need someone that knows anything about Diplomacy, as long as all the players have RP or something similar to keep up with the map), then we'll try it sometime. It won't be for another couple weeks though (I doubt we'll be ready to do it this Saturday, and I'm gone next weekend). But yeah, post, and let me know what days you would be available. I'm thinking 12-6 GL time is a good target to shoot for, but if we can get in at least 3 hours, we should make good progress on finishing a game.

[This message has been edited by mith (edited 04-10-2003 07:12 PM).]

[dethwing]

Deffinitly /in. Saturday is best for really long stretches, but I can swing 2-3 hours on just about any weeknight.

[Macros]

/in

[cuban smoker]

Yeah, I'm in. I don't like Ancient Med... Actually... I don't like variants. We should play the original, if you ask me. I will play any map though.

[mith]

I just mentioned Acient Med. because it only needs 5 players. If we get 7, we'll play on the standard map, of course.

[Antrax]

Ancient Med = ugly. I do like variants, simply because the standard game is so overanalysed. Same reason I prefer fischer random to standard chess, I guess
Antrax

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"If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"

[AhoInu]

I'll mod it if you like, but don't want to play

If I put the game on my server, and you all send me orders in RP format on AIM it should be pretty quick. I'll run a clock if you like. I'll ask MadMax and Maximus. Can't do this w/e or next, prolly ok after that. We can play 5/6 players on Std if we have to I think, there's plenty of stuff on the net about it

[AhoInu]

I've also got a variation (not a variant) for PBEM, I'll start a thread in a week or two. Ant has some details of it as I mentioned it to him

[Antrax]

So does mith, I told him about it
Antrax

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"If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"

[mith]

I'm trying to find an idea (so I can link it) I read somewhere about flexible endings for games. Anyway, basically the winning condition is slightly different, so that:

1. You need a certain number of SCs to win, which decreases each year until 190X (it goes something like 18, 18, 17, 15, 12, 10, 9, 8).
2. You have to grow into the win. In other words, in the year which you win, you have to have the number of SCs needed, and have more than you had the previous year.

It would make games shorter, and pre-planned draws (which I, personally, don't like) would be very hard to do.

[mith]

(And yeah, I've read a couple of similar ideas, I think it would be fun, CF )

[mith]

Oh, I might as well put this here as well.

I'm working on a game that works like this:

Each player controls a country that is spread about a bit more than in the usual game. In fact, each controls territory in three areas (two close together, one a bit farther away). Think YT with 7 players, everyone having a colony, and the colonies a bit bigger.
At the start of the game, all the units can not interact with each other. In fact, it could be considered 21 separate games, one for each pairing of players. So, little 2 player games. These last for some set time (depends on how the map comes out, I'm thinking around 5 years). These should go fairly fast, not a lot of talking (some, though, as you'll see in a minute).
When the X years have passed, the scope of the maps broadens. Imagine having a map where you were zoomed in really far, and then zooming out. Suddenly an "army" of 100 wouldn't be so big. It might be enough to control a small region, but not a large one. So, the results of the small "games" translate into units on a broader, 3 player map (7 of these, each player is in one of these games with all the other players exactly once). You might win again Antrax 14-11, and get 3 units on the larger map to his 2.
After anohter few years, the map broadens again, and now it's a single 7 player map.

The reason I think it would be interesting is that in the initial stages, you can't rely much on other players to gang up on an enemy. Everyone starts equal to their opponents on each map, and if they don't use good tactics, they'll be at a big disadvantage in the overall game. In fact, it may be possible for a player to win with everyone set against him from the beginning, just by better play.

There would, of course, be some scope for diplomacy in the early stages if the players were able to use builds on one map which were supported by SCs from another. I was also thinking that possibly the two regions for each player that are close to each other could be connected in some way from the very beginning. Either way, you could then have players putting more against the better tacticians. Of course, then you could add in the "you only are told what is going on on your own maps" rule, so that no one is sure who is actually doing well.

Anyway, that's my idea. I'll keep working on it. As a test game, I may cut out the first stage (2 player games) and skip right to the 3 player ones.

[CrystyB]

[mith]

Yeah, I'd vote against it too, just an idea. What I might do instead is for the two territories of a player that are close to each other, there is something linking the two that that player can move armies through. So, he and a neighbor might work out a deal where they only have 2 armies on the map they are fighting each other on, and 4 on the adjacent maps.

Not sure about the logistics of that, though.

Also considering making the two-player games a bit unbalanaced (a couple of your six games have 4 units instead of 3).

And I'm not sure about the "you only are told what is going on on your own maps" rule being too much more work for the mod, if it were all on one big map in the RP file, he would just have to cut and paste the relevant areas for each player. Would make the whole thing much more managable as far as size, anyway (can you imagine 21 of the 19 SC 2P Dip maps stuck together? ).

[CrystyB]

imagining it is what makes me not want to mod it! I mean, can you really discern (after copy-pasting all orders (b/c maps can be easily cropped)) which order is relevant and which is not? Perhaps meaningfull naming might help here, though...

[ChienFou]

3-dimensional maps with strange linkages between levels?

[mith]

Shall we shoot for an AIM game this Saturday? Say, noon GL time - whenever we finish?

[cuban smoker]

I am in. GL time is (-0500) right? That is, New York, Boston, Washington DC, Toronto, etc.

[mith]

Right.

[dethwing]

Cincinnati...

[ChienFou]

Noon GL is 5pm here. If mith opens a chat room with the same privileges as the GL Central one and posts a link here then we can all get to it. Post your intent to play this weekend in the thread, I'll mod it.

House rules, suggest modifications which I may or may not adopt as adjudicator:

7 player standard, you need a copy of RP. I will update the RP file after adjudication which will be on my site - URL to be advised.

Orders to GL ChienFou, in RP format only, 1/2 hour deadline for Spring 1901, 1/4 hour thereafter. I will post in the chat room "Adjudicating" at which time NMRs will be enforced, and "dpy file up", once complete.

any queries?

[dethwing]

How will you decide country placement?

[mith]

If we can get seven signed up and giving preferences before Saturday, we can assign them like that. Otherwise, it'll be random, I guess.

[mith]

[url=aim:gochat?roomname=GL+Diplomacy&Exchange=6]Chat Room Link[/url]

[ChienFou]

email me with preferences in order. I'll probably ignore them, but you might get lucky

[ChienFou]

Some bridge directing has come up at short notice. I can't do this weekend

[mith]

That's alright, we'll grab some unsuspecting person to take orders for us.

[Fried Egg]

This is a good idea. The nearest we can get to a face to face style game without actually physically meeting up.

Unfortunately, I do not have good internet access at weekends and do not have the time on weekdays to play...

Have fun!

[MisticX]

my idea:
1 a game in 7 persons, one map
2 the game will end the day it started
3 the year (move-retreat-move-retreat-mobiliz.) will take 30-60 minutes
4 the current map will be shown here

so... if this apply i am in, otherwise ... nop

diplomacy is a simple yet complex game, it is not necessary to simplify it nor to make it more complex.

it is not hard to realizate(needs only 7 ppl and some 7-10 hrs maybe less)

and i think it worths the shot!
good luck all of you!

[mith]

*If* we can get 7 players, we will certainly use the standard map. Otherwise, we may use the Ancient Med. map or some other alternative.

The only other difference is that we would like anyone playing to have RealPolitik to speed up the adjudicating process. With CF not modding tomorrow, if we do it, I will most likely have someone collect moves and then I'll run them through RP. Then I could just put up the DPY file and everyone can look at that. I could add a gif too, though, if that would be easier for everyone.

So, anyway, yeah, we're pretty much doing all that, except that we may play a different map if we can't get 7 (and I hope that that doesn't keep you from playing).

[MisticX]

in (miminum 4)

[MisticX]

aa i forgot... if not possible like that, let's do it one turn/day
like
1 mai opening and moves
2 mai retreats
3 mai moves
...

5 days/year... subscribing?

[mith]

That should be 5:

mith
Antrax
dethwing
cuban smoker
MisticX

Macros expressed interest, but I haven't seen him online. If we get one more, I'll just mod (odd number usually works best, I think), same for three more. If you're in, just get online at noon GL time tomorrow and we'll figure out what we're doing.

[MisticX]

gl time means.... GMT time?
so at 12:00 AM GMT?

[mith]

no, GL time is EST. noon GL time is 5 pm GMT. We can probably move it up a bit if that's too late.

[MisticX]

basiclly the montreal-ny time is the gl time... okay will try to meet u at noon(montreal-ny)

[mith]

Right.

[MisticX]

i am here...

[mith]

If the link above doesn't work, IM me at GL mith and I'll send you an invite.

[MisticX]

i have no other internet relay chat installed then mIRC... can we speak trough e-mail ?