Verbose Mafia

[Taflinel]

I'll add that the second quote refers to Zealot...

Ta ta

[radwulf]

In light of all the information that we now have, if magness is telling the truth, then it's really hard to reconcile the lack of mafia kills in 2, 4, 6, 8 with Zealot being mafia.

Once again, I can think of a way in which Zealot, or magness or both are lying, but it's highly unlikely that is the case. Today I will vote for either quercitron or taflinel.

****FINGER OF SUSPICION: taflinel**** For considering quercitron innocent, and listing me and Zealot as his suspects.

[Zealot]

[radwulf]

Actually, make that night 2, 4 in my previous ISE.

[This message has been edited by radwulf (edited 03-24-2002 05:30 PM).]

[radwulf]

Actually, make that nights 2 and 4 in my previous post.

[Taflinel]

Dear radwulf,
a) check the post where quercitron reveals his role and you'll understand why I think he is innocent
b) out of five people, I consider two innocent based on facts and instinct. I know that I am innocent, thus leaving you and Zealot for the unconfirmed roles, if you don't like the word "suspects"...

Dear Zealot
a) check post 781 by radwulf
b) my reason is that I still don't buy your role and I'd like to hear the opinions of the other players (including yours).

New test:
Innocent: Taflinel
Probably innocents:
Quercitron
Magness
Probably guilty:
radwulf
Zealot

Could each player please make a similar list?

[Taflinel]

ISE

[This message has been edited by Taflinel (edited 03-24-2002 05:40 PM).]

[Taflinel]

ISE

[radwulf]

Innocent:
radwulf

Probably innocents:
magness
zealot

Probably guilty:
taflinel
quercitron

[radwulf]

What's the matter, taf, it suddenly occurred to you that you do have to lynch me sooner or later?

Vote: taflinel

[radwulf]

You should have left that for the 3 people endgame... then you would have had a 50% chance to win the game if you managed to convince the other guy. This way, you've lost the game.

The only thing in your defense right now, is that your alleged characteristic is a bit too obvious for a mafia member... everything else screams your guilt. But if you're innocent, I would much, much rather be wrong about you now, than in the 3 people round.

If the rest of you trust my innocence, believe me, in a 3 people round with 2 out of magness, zealot, and quercitron, I'm almost certain I'll be able to make the right decission.

[Taflinel]

Originally posted by radwulf:

---

I'm almost certain I'll be able to make the right decission.

---

As you do now?
My innocence lies in my word and in my characteristic. I haven't proposed that we should lynch you or Zealot and as you can see I have not chosen any of you. Of course, as you said, the coolest mafia player around can't be that stupid to reveal himself foolishly one round before.
I proposed a new test so that we can see clearly what everybody thinks right now. I suppose that it would be damn helpful for the endgame.

If you wanna lynch me do it. Don't let Zealot be the one to second your proposal...

Ta ta

[radwulf]

Unvote: taflinel until all the tests are in.

Dude, can't you understand that it's almost impossible for Zealot to be mafia if magness is telling the truth? Try it for yourself... make a good case for Zealot to be mafia if magness' claims about who the poisonner was are correct.

And what on earth would make you consider me suspicious, and quercitron innocent? If you think I'm suspicious and quercitron innocent, then you're either very confused, or you're trying to prepare my lynching, either this round or the next.

[radwulf]

As I do now... yes! I have enough material from the other 3... with the claims magness and zealot have made, I WILL BE ABLE TO MAKE A CORRECT DECISSION IN ALL OF THE FOLLOWING ENDGAME SCENARIOS:

radwulf, magness, zealot
radwulf, magness, quercitron
radwulf, zealot, quercitron

You on the other hand, you're a wild card! If one of these three happens, I have no idea what I'm going to do:

radwulf, magness, taflinel
radwulf, quercitron, taflinel
radwulf, zealot, taflinel



[This message has been edited by radwulf (edited 03-24-2002 06:25 PM).]

[Taflinel]

Well, lynching an innocent because it will make the endgame easier for you is kinda weird, wouldn't you say?
And I say weird, not suspicious. I agree that we have to wait for the others. I'm going to sleep. Cya tomorrow and don't lynch me yet... (Just remembered that we have to wait for q to arrive)

Ta ta

[quercitron]

radwulf: consider this scenario: the Mafia can only kill every two nights. It not only allows Magness to be telling the truth but it gives the last remaining Mafia (i.e. Zealot) an easy B.S. in fact, I've outlined that perhaps the Mafia can only kill every two nights TWICE before but you ignore me.

why I consider you innocent: because it's obvious. be glad, not suspicious.
why I consider Magness innocent: because his role is way too good and believable to be faked. You've read through the past Mafias-look at the roles people claim.

why I consider Taflinel suspicious: he's not you or Magness, and he thinks I'm innocent when I've tried very hard to act suspiciously so that I won't be killed at night.

why I consider Zealot suspicious: instinct, both that his role is made up and that it would make sense for the Mafia to get one kill every two nights. Think how little information we have.

why this looks bad for the Town: because the only one who appears to agree with me is Taflinel, which means that we can't lynch Mafia Scum Zealot. Which means that the Mafia will get Taflinel lynched, kill off Magness, and then lynch me. Which will result in the Mafia winning.

what I'm saying now: I'm innocent, radwulf, and if the Town ends up losing as a result of your stupid suspicions I'm giving out an early Finger of I TOLD YOU SO

Frankly, you're lucky I'm not Mafia. My family and I would have had control of the game a long time ago, especially given that we would have had a chance to kill off Zealot, the "new owner of Quailman's gun emporium."

So go ahead. Lynch Taflinel. And then lynch me. And then, unless you're Mafia and you have everyone fooled, know that you personally are responsible for the loss of this Town.

Oh, and by the way, there's some characteristic in this post, but you won't find it.

I want to ask something of the Town. Don't lynch Taflinel. Lynch Zealot or lynch me. I will follow either bandwagon.

[quercitron]

Oh, by the way, I'm back early. Heh.

[radwulf]

Okay, I've forgotten about the possibility that the mafia cannot kill during even numbered nights. mole probably tried to capitalize on that, and maybe Zealot is the other mafia goon that's doing the same thing.

Zealot, you staying at home during night 6 didn't make any kind of sense... in my opinion, you didn't stay home that night. Rather, you claimed to have stayed home so that your role claim wouldn't interfere with mole's claim. I think I will vote for you, but I'll wait a little longer to see what you have to say for yourself.

[Zealot]

The mafia only being able to kill every other night? With only four of them and 18 people total? I would think that would make them very underpowered. They would need to eliminate ten people in a row without having a single one of them die in order to win as fast as possible. Even with a poisoner out there killing on opposite nights, they would need to get an innocent lynched five times in a row. This assumes that they never kill the poisoner at night and that the poisoner never kills a single one of them for the entire game. If the poisoner does kill one of them or dies relatively early (notice that if Antrax was the poisoner, as I believe he was, both events occurred), then they would need to have the town lynch at least seven or eight innocents to win. It seems that in such a situation the mafia would be woefully underpowered, especially if they had characteristics that might help give them away. For these reasons, I think that the hypothesis that the mafia kill every night is not true.

[radwulf]

Well, soothsayer and one additional townie were almost guaranteed to die from the start in the aftermath of a Lepton gambit. Then, we don't have any sort of cops. No doctors either. And the masons were handicapped by lack of k, and they didn't provide us any help...

(btw, it's funny, I just realized I could make the case that I am the most repsponsible for indirectly killing the mason lodge... I messed around with macros until he revealed his characteristic and got eaten... I instigated the lynching of tfff... during the night when PP/DP was killed I threw suspicion on magness to fool the mafia into killing PP/DP instead--after all, magness could have had some useful info... you know, maybe that is the cool sig line I've been looking for)

where was I? Yeah, so no cops, no docs, handicapped masons, a killing doctor, soothsayer's obsession... you know, I think it actually makes a lot of sense that the mafia would only be able to kill half of the nights.

So yeah, Zealot, it doesn't make sense that you stayed at home during night 6. And it kinda makes sense that the mafia can't kill every night. We didn't lynch crazycellist or mole based on their characteristic... in fact, we still don't know what their characteristics were.

And I can't forget your vicious attempts to murder me. Yeah, I think I'll vote for you, Zealot!

I'm still a bit suspicious of magness though... in the beginning, his information was a lot more useful... he had some potentially useful information regarding sweetwater's death, and then the recruiting business with crazycellist... now, his information has apparently become more non-committing. Hm, I don't know, but it's going to be one heck of a 3 people round.



[This message has been edited by radwulf (edited 03-24-2002 10:57 PM).]

[Zealot]

I have no idea why the mods did what they did. My post above is simply my reasons for believing that I do actually have some power, and that the maf are not restricted to every other night kills.

Now for other arguments for my innocence. You claim you wish to vote for me because I have been suspicious of you several times so far in this thread. Tell me, when did I start a deadly bandwagon against you? I cannot remember ever having done so. All I do is post my suspicions, much as you do. Should I claim that you must be mafia because you have voted for me before and I know I am innocent? As townies, it becomes our job to be suspicious. The only way I would truly believe you to be innocent would be if I were mafia myself and knew you were not one of us. This is why I have voiced suspicion of quercitron for stating his strong beliefs about the innocence of certain people even though he claims his role has no powers.

Look next to the tffff lynching. You and crazycellist jumped on my vote, and got a mason lynched. If cello and I were mafia together, we would have to be blazing idiots to coordinate a rushed bandwagon like that. That would be the fastest possible way I can think of to get us lynched for the next two rounds. Tell me, from looking at my posts this game, would you call me stupid? I admit I may have made a mistake by staying home night 6, butI would like to think that if I were maf this game, I would have played it better than going for tffff.

Besides all this, I have been posting mafia tests as much as quercitron in order to flush out characteristics, and have taken every test myself.

[radwulf]

tfff was probably crazycellist's mistake, not yours... and as for those tests, bah... they're pretty harmless!

What I find striking about your attacks against me is that there seems to be pure intention to kill behind them... when I attack somebody, I usually am very careful to consider that the opposite may be true... I often present an accusation, and a few possible refutations to it... you've attacked me 3 times I think in this game. Two of those times you were really out to get me... something about your arguments left no room for discussion. At least that was my impression.
Night 6 and the fact that you're still alive are two very serious accusations against you.

You do have a point about quercitron's certainty of my innocence and magness'. Well, maybe... I don't know... but he sounds like he's saying 100% sure we're innocent... 95% is one thing, but 100%. I would never, under any circumstance be 100% sure of anyone until they were dead, and next to their name I would find it written: civilian. And even then I'd keep in mind the possibility of foul play. Also querci, I am VERY unhappy with your last post. You try to play on my ego, threatening me that I will be the only responsible with the loss of the game if something stupid happens. Here, another FOS to you for that... and for your dramatic "DON'T LYNCH TAFLINEL, LYNCH ME OR ZEALOT!" Why, can you explain, please?

I just hope one of you two is mafia, because one of you will die this round, and the other the next.



[This message has been edited by radwulf (edited 03-25-2002 12:23 AM).]

[Zealot]

radwulf, I am too tired to go post hunting, so if you want to lynch me based on my accusations of you, find the post numbers so I can at least see what I am being condemned for. I do not think any accusations I have made left no room for discussion. I try to be thoughtful in my posts, and present all my logic. I find your questioning of my posts a bit ironic because I can remember at least several instances where you state your "feelings" about someone's guilt or innocence, and several times in this thread, you have accused people very vehemently, leaving no room for discussion yourself. If you look back to the first time I voted for you, it was because of just such an attack that you made against Samadhi.

And remember that if I were mafia with cello, we would have been able to talk during the day, according to the rules set forth by our mods. Why would we try something like that unplanned, let alone planned?

[radwulf]

There are 20 something pages in this game, I'm too tired to look for them myself. My attack against Samadhi may have been loudmouthed but it wasn't criminal... I told him, dude, explain your accent, cause I'm thinking it's Italian.

And then the way you jumped on me because I said a couple of times that I trusted your logic.

And as for coordination, just because the mafia are allowed to talk during the day, doesn't necessarily mean that they were all online 24 hours a day, planning and discussing their every post... crazycellist could have very well decided to do something stupid by herself in the tfff affair, without discussing it with her colleagues, which I'm guessing it's exactly how it happened.

See, right before she voted, I was screaming like crazy, kill him l'anmal, kill him (referring to tfff) so she must have thought (like I did) that there's no mafia game on this planet in which someone could do something like that to an innocent person, get them lynched, and then get away with it. So she voted, hoping I would get the blame for it. First thing the following day she attacked me. And that time you attacked me, too, but very cautiously... luckily, Samadhi, bless his instincts, somehow realized I was innocent, and the bandwagon backfired against crazycellist. But I digress... anyway, the point is, your point about the improbability of coordinating with cc to kill tfff does not stand... she probably saw a good chance to get two easy kills, and jumped on it without asking anyone's advice.

[radwulf]

And yeah, at this point I have no idea which one of Zealot and quercitron is mafia... I just hope it's one of them, and not one of the other two, because I'll lose the game otherwise.

[radwulf]

Bah, I'm too tired for this now... I'll think it over again tomorrow.

[Magness]

Bah! I think Radwulf's thoughts about Zealot have weight, and I agree with him.

Vote: Zealot

[Ghost Post]

Vote Talley:

Zealot 1 (Magness)

From here on out a full majority is needed to lynch. The only possible exception to this is if no one else has any votes.

Less then 12 hours until the voting deadline. There will be no extentions since it has been the same people for at least 6 real life days now.

[Taflinel]

I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT EVEN YOU ARE DOING THIS!!!
NICE, GOOD MODS THEY SAY!!!
AND YOU DON'T EXTEND THE DEADLINE EITHER!!!
I'LL VOTE ZEALOT I TELL YOU!!!
AND YOU STOP NOW, BOTH OF YOU!!!
STOP IT I TELL YOU!!!
stop.....

[This message has been edited by Taflinel (edited 03-25-2002 06:45 PM).]

[Samadhi]

L'layne is almost a dead alien!

[radwulf]

Vote: Zealot

[Ghost Post]

The town gathers to lynch their choice yet again. Magness, wearing his cape and mask, and radwulf, still tightly clutching the trigger button, drag Zealot to the gallows. Tafinel lays gibbering in a heap, permanently traumatized as he breaks his own characteristic. Quercitron stands there taking notes for tomorrows newspaper, forced to write the articles himself now that his reporter is missing.

“You cannot do this! You cannot! My family will not stand for this!” screams Zealot. “ I will be avenged!”

Those are the last words he ever utters as the town lynches the last remaining mafia member. The town then searches for their missing reporter. Batman aka Magness finds the mafia’s secret hideout. Elayne is found there tied up and scared but otherwise unharmed. Quercitron offers Elayne her job back, but she flatly refuses. He convinces her to take a long vacation instead.

Elayne, bags packed, stands on the hill looking down at the town. “Fools!” she says. “This town was so insane you should have been able to stay hidden forever. Granted I did cripple you, but it was only fair. You had to prove you were capable. I don’t tolerate incompetence. Ah well, in time they might forget and I can begin once more.” With that Elayne Corleone heads out of town without another backwards glance.

Congratulations to the winners: Magness, Tafinel, Quercitron, radwulf and Soothsayer. Yes, Soothsayer. His goal was to get Art lynched in two days or die. He completed his task and joins the list of winners. Good game all.

Please don’t reveal your characteristics quite yet. Give people a day or two to try to guess them if they so choose. Complete game information will be given out then, though I think most of it is clear by now. Feel free to post all guesses.

[This message has been edited by L'layne (edited 03-25-2002 11:17 PM).]

[radwulf]

I knew that sneaky weasel had to be evil...
Great game everyone! And mods, thanks for giving me the perfect role!
~exchanges high fives with fellow townies~

[Samadhi]

Hurray! Always trust Instinct™!

[mith]

*~kicks Antrax~*

I had you all right where I wanted you, too

[mudster]

Congrats town~~~

Too bad I didn't live to see it.

[mudster]

Congrats town~~~

Too bad I didn't live to SEe it.

[radwulf]

hey taf, were you allowed to vote in this game?

[Taflinel]

DAMN YOU RADWULF!!!
I DON'T BELIEVE YOU!!!
YOU ARE THE LAST UNDERCOVER MAFIA MEMBER!!!
YOU SAID ZEALOT WAS PROBABLY INNOCENT!!!
YOU WILL BE THE NASTY GUY IN THE SEQUEL!!!
DIE DIE DIE!!!!

[ooc]
Excellent game. (3rd in a row that I am among the winners)
Congratulations and many thanks to the mods for a very nice idea and many many interesting roles, apart from mine because it actually prohibited me from participating.
Congratulations to fellow townsfolk and thanx to all people that played.
I had fun and I think most of the players did...[/ooc]

[Soothsayer]

great game - Sorry for taking you out of the game on the first night but I had to otherwise I was going to die. My only problem was that I was lynched before I had a chance to make a post . Still it was fun trying to get you all to be convinced I was a cop when we were told there wasn't any!

To the mods - really enjoyable game - excellent to see a new version that has worked surprisingly well. Looking forward to verbose #2