Rock and Pop mafia the sequel - GAME OVER

[Werebear]

Vote: Dan.

Why?

• IS comes out and says Dan is scum.
  
• Dan comes out as a mason
  
• Noone backs Dan up
  
• Dan starts accusing IS
  

Right now, IS is suspicious for not posting much, but Dan is even more suspicious. As of right now 11/20 are dead - over half! and no other mason has appeared. I'd like to hear from IS today... but even more important is Dan needs to have support from his so-far-non-existant mason group. Most games, a mason coming out is backed up. I think with only 9 people left, Dan needs to have one of his group back him up. As soon as one does, I unvote.

[TANSTAAFL]

I agree, I don't know why Dan didn't want someone to come out and support him before. While I agree that masons coming out too early can be detrimental, it looks like IS has some sort of limit on his posting. vote: dan

[Dan]

If I ask for one of my allies to come forward we'll both be dead. The mafia or serial killer will kill us both, that's why I don't want them to come out. Why should I risk the lives of my comrades? That's right, I shouldn't.

You're right Werebear, 9 people left. Now think, with three badguys left (possibly two if there were only 3 mafia to start, DP might have thought of the cult as compensation), tonight, our lodge won't stay intact long. In fact with two killers their chances are pretty good tonight. So if you still don't believe I'm a mason, allow me to live one more round till tomorrow. The mafia will most likely kill one of us and prove that I'm innocent, if they don't, then I'll ask one of my allies to come forward (if I'm still alive), and the town will be in a very good position.

I don't feel like giving the mafia and SK free targets tonight. I'd rather keep them guessing, give them the chance to kill eachother. If my allies come out to defend me we lower the towns chance of success.

So, my final request: Lets lynch someone else today, and if none of the masons are dead tomorrow, I'll ask one to come forward, and this problem will be solved.

<break>

I just did a little caluclation, and it is essential that a baddy is lynched today (if there are three left). Tomorrow the worst case scenerio is that you have 3 bad guys and 3 good guys and the two dead are two masons who could have voted together. I don't want to jump into that.

And for the love of shit Werebear, I put a finger of suspiscion on IS, saying he's someone to look out for. I didn't condemn him. I'd say it's pretty risky business to put your faith in someone who ignores everything you said on the previous day. It's not implausible that he's mafia.

[Gaspode]

This IS-Dan debate is getting pointless. FOS: anyone who is just sitting back and letting this happen without either participating or speaking out against it. My guess is that the mafia are just sitting there laughing at us saying "We can't lose, with all the attention on those two guys." I have nothing against trying to figure out what's going on with IS/Dan, but we should look at other things too.

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You can't lose if you win.

[Werebear]

"for love of shit"? *blinks a few times* Never mind. I'm going to leave my vote. The chances of you being a hiding mafia are much greater than the chances of you being a mason at the moment.

[Green Crayons]

First off- FOS: Gaspode, for FOSing everyone not adding to the conversation, when he himself isn't putting anything on the table, either.

Okay, now i'm more willing to lynch Dan. He has claimed to be mason, IS has claimed to be cop (a "I now have good reason to believe that Logain is a good guy, so..." pretty much sealed the deal). Okay, here's what i think is going on: IS is, in fact, a cop. He has some stupid posting requirement due to the nature of his band. Dan is mafia. He claimed mason, and got lucky that there aren't other masons out there. All this talk of how the mafia would want to kill another mason is iffy - The Who was offed last night, but he could only check for the band name, not alignment. Leading me (and more than likely the mafia) to believe that there is still a regular alignment checking cop out there, as well as a doctor. So, when faced with either offing Dan and his supposed mason buddy, or going after a cop or doctor, i think the mafia would choose the latter two. Thus, Dan's argument for leaving his co-mason alive is more or less void, in my opinion, because i doubt the mafia would be gunning for them.

Vote: Dan, unless if someone else comes out and prooves otherwise. As it stands now, all i see is a cop with a posting requirement and a mafia claiming mason. If the lynch prooves otherwise (assuming that no other mason comes out to back up Dan), i'm all for lynching IS tomorrow.

[Dan]

I didn't say they were gunning for me, in fact they wouldn't attack me becasue I'm so suspiscious. They don't know who is who out there, the can't tell a doctor from a mason from a serial killer. So you're going to increase their chances of hitting a doc or a cop by having my friends come out and reveal themselves? Bullshit!

[Green Crayons]

Well, right now, as it stands, it's your word against IS'. And since IS is claiming the cop role, he has more weight in credibility. Never did i say (nor do i think anyone has) that i want all your mason buddies to come out. Only one of them will be fine. Otherwise, you still look like lying scum.

[ralphmerridew]

I've been trying to make sense of this.

If IS is a cop, why doesn't he respond to Dan's claim of masonhood with something like "Logain is good, and Dan can't be a mason, so v. Dan"? And why did he claim Logain was innocent? Cops generally don't reveal innocents except to stop that person from being lynched, or if they think they'll be killed that night.

If IS is evil, then he'd know Dan was probably innocent and could confirm it, and would probably take the opportunity to back down.

Either way, his behavior doesn't make sense.

But the terse comments do make sense if IS is being vote-controlled somehow (or maybe if he's trying to act like he's vote-controlled).

[Dan]

BTW, since I'm one vote away from getting lynched, I'll say my last just in case you guys actually lynch me.

IS is wrong. He got my investigation wrong. He has refused to say how he investigates. He has neglected to answer our questions. I'll let you decide whether or not he is a good guy. If you actually believe there is an alignment investigator, you should lynch IS immediately because that is not his role. If you don't believe he's an alignment investigator, you have something much more vague on your hands. Is he faking investigations? Is he just an incompetant or insane cop? He didn't die last night. Does that mean anything? Did a doc protect him? You will have to start answering these questions soon whther you like it or not, it might be best for you to examine IS and other players (as Gaspode suggested) before you kill me.

One last question: For what purpose are you killing me right now? I made a request. The request was to be permitted to live until tomorrow and then the masons will be revealed. Why has this been denied me? I don't want the town to waste today's lynch on me. like Gaspode said, there needs to be more ideas floating around, otherwise once I'm dead, you'll be stalemated, and the mafia will hav ethe advantage.

I've also noticed no one has tried to look in previous posts to see if I have any relationship with other people. I wouldn't reveal my allies directly, but if you lok, you might find hints to their existance.

Last, an address to my allies: Guys, if you think I'm just out of my head, and I actually am worth saving, then come forward and vouch for me. I won't waste the opportunity to continue living, I just don't want to ruin your hidden positions or make easy targets for the mafia out of ourselves and the docs and cops that remain.

--Dan

[Dragon Phoenix]

vote update - 5 to lynch

Dan 4 (IS, Werebear, Tanstaafl, GreenCrayons)

marker

[Werebear]

Is there a deadline? If we have lots of time, I'll unvote Dan until we hear more. I have no desire to lynch a mason... but he's at death's door, and so far none of his alleged mason group are willing to save him... either they don't mind lynching a town, or there is no mason group.

[Logain]

Well I've been thinking over what to do since IS made the post at the start of this day.

Honestly I'm not sure what to think, especially now that he added my name to his list.

I found (rather find) IS to be highly suspicious, only coming forward with his claims and not saying anything else. But who knows, maybe that is even part of his role, that he only post terse statements of his findings without making any other type of discussion post. *shrug*

Also, yesterday I had pretty much decided to believe Dan's story, which seemed both plausible and sincere in his posts. But, as Wearbear pointed out, no one has come forward with anything to deny Dan's guilt and his head is on the chopping block. Dan also doesn't want any masons to come to his rescue cause he states they will instantly die as mafia targets. But Dan already outed himself and wasn't killed last night...which might just mean he's mafia and anyone who would back up his claim would have to be evil also.

Another problem is that I also thought the same as ralphmerridew stated, and that while cops usually reveal their "bad" results immediately, they usually hold onto their innocents, so why mention me at all? Whether to get his info out before he dies or just to gain my voting support, I'm not sure. I'll have to think some more, but currently I think voting for Dan might be the best thing to do. Otherwise we'll be debating every day afterwards if we should believe IS or not.

[ralphmerridew]

I understand Dan's claim. Mafia generally leave "suspicious" people alone, and go after confirmed innocents. Right now, Dan is "suspicious", and isn't a likely target. But if another another mason were to come out, they'd both go to "confirmed inncoent".

Also, the DP games I can remember offhand (Discworld 1, Dune, R&P 1) have all had mason groups, so I think it's very likely that there is one mason group is this game. Also, if there is a mason group, then Dan is a member. (I doubt there's more than one group, and if there were a group Dan weren't in, some member would have denounced him.) Taking this in addition to my points above, I really do think Dan's telling the truth.

[ralphmerridew]

By the way, Werebear, even if the deadline is coming up, only 3 votes would be necessary to lynch Dan at deadline. So you should unvote him.

[Werebear]

(posting to see what was written above)

[Werebear]

Your request to live one more night might just be your chance to kill once more... something important if you're a serial killer... but then, why would you have gone after Sparticus or Mikegoo instead of IS? Throw us off the scent? Maybe if someone else were the SK, they would have killed IS to make you look suspicious, but they didn't, did they.

I see no reason to have this day end quickly. I'm not sure what you personally can say to make me sure you're not a killer, Dan, but for at least another day... Unvote: Dan. And for those of you who are going to jump on me for harassing him that he's mafia or a SK and then unvoting him, I just don't want to rush into this. I will revote Dan in a day or so, well before the deadline, unless someone has something better to post.

[Trevize]

I believe what Dan has claimed so far. As for the mafia not killing him, why should they, he is not a danger to them during the night (if truely a mason) nor during the day since everyone seems to bandwagon on him. My vote like before goes to IS because I don't think a cop would come out and say who he thinks is innocent. Plus it boggles my mind that the mafia did not kill him off since he came out and pointed a finger at Dan making him prime suspect as a cop.
Vote: IS

[Dan]

Originally posted by Logain:

---

Dan also doesn't want any masons to come to his rescue cause he states they will instantly die as mafia targets.

---

This is half of the reason. Having the masons come out is bad for two reasons: 1. It makes confirmed innocents which are prime targets, and 2. It narrows the group of people that contains the doc and hte cop, making them easier to target at night. With confirmed knowledge of two masons, the mafia will make more deadly choices.

[Werebear]

I agree with the philosophy entirely. The only problem is we don't know if Dan's really a mason or not. I have unvoted him for the moment...

...but then who, Mr. Mason, do you recommend we vote for? IS, the only person who's come out and given us DEFINITE "vote for XXX" posts? Someone like Gaspode, who hasn't added anything to the debate, or someone like me (or Green Crayons or TANSTAAFL), who merely want confirmation that you're a mason, and not a serial killer? Can you blame us, with over half the players dead? I am still giving until tomorrow morning, and then if the tide hasn't changed, my vote goes back to Dan. The way I figure it, if Dan is who he says he is, then tomorrow will be easy.

[Gaspode]

vote: Tanstaafl because I have reason to believe this IS/Dan/whoever else debate is not helping the town. Tanstaafl seems suspicious to me because she voted for Dan because he didn't ask for a fellow mason to come out, and Dan has recently given us a decent reason why he hasn't done that. It's not much to go on, but it's better than the IS/Dan thing.

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You can't lose if you win.

[Trevize]

So I had written a whole 2 paragraphs on why we should drop the Dan/IS and then had to walk away from the computer<that was about 1 hour ago>, when I got back Gaspode had already said what I wanted to say. So I agree and am ready to change my vote.
unvote: IS
Vote: TANSTAAFL

FOS: IS because I still don't believe him but don't think i can convince this thick headed town to follow me. <did i just stick my foot in my mouth<?>.

TANSTAAFL - since you seemed to have died in about 3 other games in the last 48 hours I thought you might enjoy another bandwagon . Just remember, Free Lunch, Fuzzy Bear.

[ralphmerridew]

I'm really not sure what to make of the IS/Dan thing. But I think that TANSTAAFL is more suspicious than either of them at the moment. Vote: TANSTAAFL

[Werebear]

Fine, then, fine... but if Dan turns out to be the SK, don't blame me.

TANSTAAFL? Although my vote counting has sucked lately, I think you have 3/5 of the votes for a lynch. Anything to say before I add mine?

[ralphmerridew]

Werebear, if Dan turns out to be the SK, then feel free to make an ALTW/WTYS banner, and follow up my every post with a copy of it.

[Dan]

Tanstaafl, I also think you are a bit suspiscious. You seemed to lay low for the first two rounds and then when you did start occasionally posting you just followed the lead of other people (the brief accusations on Trevize were the only original contributions you had). But since this wasn't much to go on, it would have made me more suspiscious to bring it up before with four votes on my head.

Vote: Tanstaafl

[Dragon Phoenix]

no deadline yet, plenty of discussion.

[TANSTAAFL]

Wow, I leave work a little early and when I come in the next day I'm one vote from being lynched. This IS/Dan thing may not be the best thing for the town, but I don't see many other options out there right now. (and I'm not going to vote for myself) Plus, I think the IS/Dan thing is going to keep coming up over and over again until it is settled.

Other thoughts: we had two kills last night, which I'm assuming means we still have at least two killers, one who uses anthrax and one who stabs. we have only nine people left. Dan has said he's a mason, and said he didn't want his allies coming out and supporting him. that makes me think he has at least two other masons in his lodge (if he is telling the truth. IS has insinuated that he has investigative abilities, and that Logain is innocent, and Dan is scum.

While Dan has given his reasons for not having his fellow masons come out and support him, I beleive that it is in the town's best interest to do so. That is why said I don't see why he doesn't want them to. I just don't understand his reasoning. And asking us to wait another day, and then the mason's will be revealed doesn't make sense to me either. We already waited one day.

But fine. The town has obviously decided to move on. And I was the next target. I'll take on the bandwagoners one by one:

Gaspode: Yes, I voted for Dan for not wanting anyone to confirm his role claim. It seems suspicious to me. See above.

Trevize: Nice, claim to have followed the exact same pattern of thought as the previous poster, but they posted before you had a chance to. No way to disprove that. And from your comment at the end, it looks like you just want to join a bandwagon.

Ralphmerridew: Can't really reply, you didn't give me a reason.

Dan: yes, I did lay low at the beginning. I'm not very big on the music scene, so I didn't really know what to expect from this game. I don't know what else to tell you. I've given my reasoning for my votes. If you think I've just been following the crowd that's fine, but as you are on the tail end of my bandwagon it looks like you are following that same crowd.


Finally, Since the town has seemed to move on, waiting for more info, I'm going back to where I had been before.

unvote: dan
vote: trevize

I still find him suspicious. Earlier in the game he did not contribute anything to the discussion. He just stayed below the radar. I tried to point this out, but noone wanted to listen. The IS/Dan thing started and that was all that anyone was talking about. During this he consistently voted for IS. If he believes Dan and wants to support him, that's fine. But why vote for someone that has obviously claimed to be cop. Even if he is insane, he is still on the town's side. Also, if Dan and IS are both telling the truth, but IS's investigations just aren't trustworthy, why would the Mafia kill him? we won't beleive anything he says anyway? Now, when people decide to abandon the IS/Dan debate, Trevize once again stops contributing to the discussion and joins a bandwagon with a "what he said" post.

Wow, that's a long post.... sorry for blabbering on and on, but this game is getting frustrating.

[Dan]

Originally posted by Tanstaafl:

---

While Dan has given his reasons for not having his fellow masons come out and support him, I beleive that it is in the town's best interest to do so. That is why said I don't see why he doesn't want them to. I just don't understand his reasoning. And asking us to wait another day, and then the mason's will be revealed doesn't make sense to me either. We already waited one day.

---

Its not my fault the mafia didn't target the masons. As for my reasoning, let me see if I can put this plain to you. The mafia want to be able to make intelligent kills right? If they have information about two onfirmed innocents, they can make significantly more intelligent kills tonight. They an easily hit a cop or doc or anyone they want to target tonight if they know who tow out of the eight people are (plus they know who the mafia are, so they know almost, if not half of the population). I do not want ot give the mafia this advantage. Plus there's the idea of self-preservation, I don't want to die. If the mafia don't want to kill the doc or cop tonight, they will go right after the onfirmed innocents, myself or someone who comes out to defend me.

How many times do I have to say this, many people have already seen the logic in this. Having the masons come out is a disadvantage. By waiting this last day tomorrow a mason will most likely be dead, and if not, one of them will come forward. There's not muh to understand. It seems to me that you are playing dumb; why you can't see reasoning that is right in front of you?

[TANSTAAFL]

Well, I'm not sure how much I'll be able to check in for the rest of the day, and I don't want to be lynched. So instead of waiting for more reactions to my post i'll just come out and say it. I'm The Cure, it's a standard doctor role. Now I'll be killed tonight for sure, since I doubt there are any other doctor roles out there. So much for your masons being killed tonight. But at least that gives us a better chance of getting scum today, leaving us better off for tomorrow.

[Werebear]

Dan - we're beating a dead horse. I've given up in asking for another mason to come out a long time ago, since everyone else seemed to take you at your word. I guess we will see overnight. And right now, I refuse to lead anyone anywhere, as there HAS to be someone out there better informed than I. Anyone?

ROLE CLAIMS

Gaspode
Green Crayons
Dan - mason?
IS - cop role of some sort?
Logain
ralphmerridew
Tanstaafl - The Cure?
Trevize
Werebear

[ralphmerridew]

Sounds credible. Unvote: TANSTAAFL

[Green Crayons]

Unvote: Dan; Vote: Trevize. This is basically due to the fact of everything that Tanstaafl said against Trevize. Now, i know that just because Tanst did claim doctor, and it's 99.9% true (..and will be 100% by the time nobody else comes out to denouce the claim), that doesn't mean Tanst is automatically right - however, the reasoning provided against Trevize suggests that he is trying to "stay below the radar."

And, there are usually only two reasons for this: either he's mafia, or a special role (which would be.. what? Would there be two doctors? Perhaps a normal alignment-checking cop?).

[Dan]

Unvote: Tanstaafl I agree it sounds credible.

I'm nto going to vote for Trevize becasue I don't hink he's suspisciou. His voting for IS is the strongest art of Tanstaafl's case against him, but I don't think his intenet was ever to really lynch him. His first vote against IS was intended to get IS to talk (he said so in his post). I think he still thinks IS will talk, when it is readily apparent that he won't, he's posted once a day every day, and that's all. Trevize also though IS's mentioning of innocents was suspisciously unnecessary, which I thought too, but there's nothing we can't do anything abou tit until IS starts responding (i.e. tomorrow). Trevize, IS isn't going to talk, find someone better to analyze.

Green Crayons (I spelled your name the non-dyslexic way this time), the idea that the doc would come out to denounce a fake doc is a little strange. What would they do that? If the real doc is not Tanstaafl, it would probably be better for them to sit back and watch Tanstaafl get killed by the other killing group, not draw attention to themselves. Something's not quite right about you Green Crayons, when I FOS him back on page two he shrugged it off with sarcasm, ignoring some of my claims about him, such as his sparratic voting style.

What was particularly strange was that in reply 77 (the second day) he said he hadn't been paying attention to the game much, but then how were you able to vote 4 times and post 5 times in the first day. It seems to me like you were paying plenty of attention to this game of attention to this game.

Second Finger of Suspiscion: Green Crayons.

(and please don't shrug it off with your "I'm mafia (period) You caught me (period) Congratulations, you're private eye numero uno"-shit, it just makes you look more guity, it's as bad as saying "Who.....me?" with a dumb look on your face)

[Dan]

I can't type for shit. *apologizes*

[Gaspode]

unvote: Tanstaafl, aka "The Cure" We have to give her the benefit of the doubt for now.

vote: trevize because I agree that he's tried to stay under the radar a bit, and there's nothing better to go on as of now.

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You can't lose if you win.

[Green Crayons]

[Dan]

Ah I see, you were saying that in round two you weren't paying attention much? Because in round one you seemed to. You posted three times between DP's reply 21 vote update and my first post (acusations against jester). (though I diduse the word sparratic worn, they were meditated votes, they were also abundant).

But no matter, you did change you vote to Polotet, who turned out to be scum. But so what? Polotet something died of multiple stab wounds, the serial killer. The mafia have no control over that. In fact a standard strategy for scum to dissacociate themselves by FOS or voting eachother. If anyone had followed your vote you probably would not have stayed with it long, or would have believed his first defence.

Besides that you have this claim here:

Originally posted by Green Crayons:

---

The doctor so far has been useless to us

---

This is absolutely and postively untrue. On the first night htere was no serial killer kill. Where did it go. It just might have been deflected by a doc. Certainly it would be luck, but certainly isn't useless. And on the third night there also wasn't a mafia kill. What about the food poisoning you say? That was Degenerate, the Blue Oyster Cult, DP provided this infomation at the end of the last Day. The second journal entry said "eating those blue oysters did not go well with him". Oysters are associated with food poisoning, hence jesternl's death. So where did the mafia kill go? Oh that's right there wasn't one. It looks like the doc got lucky again. He's so goddamn useless isn't he, protecting people like that?

And now, when the Doc's chances of protecting someone are significantly higher, you say the doc should come forward no matter what? Screw that! If Tanstaafl is not hte doc, the real doc should stay in hiding. Let Tanstaafl take the fall and keep on doing your good work.

Vote: Green Crayons for calling our doc useless.

[Dan]

P.S. I say he should let Tanstaafl take the fall because there is a better than normal chance that Tanstaafl will get killed. If Tanstaafl does not get killed than someone else will, maybe even the real doc, then real doc will prove him wrong in death. But if neither of them die then the real doc still has the option of calling Tanstaafl out, but he shouldn't do it yet because the situation is still too critical, revealing true roles gives the mafia an advantage, the same basic reason I didn't want my allies to come out.

[Logain]

Well I never cast a vote yet even though there have been more than enough suspicions to try and bandwagon someone already, but I either believed their story or had too much doubt. I think Green Crayons has just made himself the front runner though after the doc statement.

Vote: Green Crayons