Pearls of Lutra Mafia- [Day 6- replacements needed]

[Darkblade]

I'm curious. Public question for the mod, if the person with the perals dies, does the town lose its abilty to declare a draw?

[Werebear]

In the books, it's Tansy who recovers the pearls, one by one, and keeps them in their carrying case. That's why I was surprised that when Tansy died, the sixth pearl was found the sixth night - maybe as long as a member of her search party is alive, the quest would still continue.

(spoiler, not necessary to read) and it's Tansy that gives them back to their original owner, which of course turns out to be the ocean (a'la Titanic, etc) at the end of the book. This isn't really a spoiler, it's kinda obvious she's going to at the end, but it's supposed to be a surprise.

[Werebear]

I missed the mod post last page explaining the draw requirements... so, whichever side is on the fuzzy end of the lollipop is going to negotiate for a draw. ROFL!

[MadMax]

Away til Sunday night.

[Darkblade]

Okay, so any of Ulbaz's forces ready to negotiate? Hello?
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Shoot, that didn't work

[PuzzleProdigy]

Heh, it'll be interesting to see how you deal with this.
Votes on the draw should be bolded, just like any others.

[Werebear]

I say we start the day like any other.

[Vegtable2001]

Frankly I think a draw might be one of our better options. We don't seem to have any leads at all. I think the entire sk factor might interfere with a draw so i'm going to pose a Question to the mod Can we lynch somone and have a draw today? (sorry wb, but you're being alive could interfere with our draw thingy)

[Werebear]

QUESTION FOR THE MOD - would I interfere with a draw?

I already know the answer is no. I wouldn't interfere... but I wouldn't win either.

[PuzzleProdigy]

I've already answered that question; anyone with alternate win conditions may or may not interfere depending on whether the win condition is fufilled. If a side group or player wins, then the town will lose.

[PuzzleProdigy]

And as to veg's question:

Well, no. If you lynch, you can only draw during the day, and a lynch reverts the game to night. If you get a draw, then the game ends and you can't lynch.

[Vegtable2001]

Well WB, what exactly is you're win condition?

[Werebear]

*sigh*

I'm a Serial Killer. You do the math. That's why I said, I won't interfere with a draw... with a draw, it'll be "everyone wins but Werebear". And if the two sides are cheesy enough to do that, then so be it... in my book, it really won't be a true loss... any game I've had so much fun in can't possibly be a loss. *laugh*

But - I'm willing to help the town if they choose to kill off the sea rats... as I've proven with my no kills at night, and my character descriptions during the day. I still can't believe you guys killed Tansy.

The choice is yours... I really won't be displeased any way you slice it. I've had more fun with this game than most others, and I've been allowed to live beyond my time. I just wish I didn't have the words "INVESTIGATE ME NIGHT 1 OR 2" branded on my forehead...

[Vegtable2001]

I think i can believe that. Providing you indeed are a serial killer (which you almost certaintly are) I don't think you'd interfere with this draw. I have a question though. You've read this book very recently. Can you think of any other role that would be outside of the good guys and the mafia? Anything at all the mod could interpret to have some sort of win condition that wouldn't work for us?

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Flame Away

[Werebear]

Sure, milk me for information, then throw away the husk.

Since as far as I know there's no seagulls in this game, the only thing I can think of is Rasconza the Fox. Rasconza spoke for the sea rats and became their leader... Rasconza pretended to side with Ublatz and Barranca (Ublatz' right hand man), while Ublatz pretended to believe he wasn't powergreedy. They both played a game of "who can top whom" throughout the book. Spoiler ahead - Barranca eventually defected to Rasconza's side and both of them, along with all the sea rats, fought Ublatz and his monitor lizards. At the end of the book, Barranca and Rasconza killed each other because they each thought the other was betraying them, and Ublatz was killed by Martin more or less.

So Rasconza is an evil character who looks out for himself at any cost... he's the only one I can think of that would cause trouble... and that's just a guess.

[Vegtable2001]

Let's see.... Part of his requirements would be to kill Ublaz... That's already done... Then i bet he'd need to kill that Baranca guys... Considering both are still alive (right?) then i think a draw would be safe. As a mod i would have both of em as mafia traitors, who need to kill ublaz and the other. Think this makes sense? If so i don't think they would interfere either. One last thing, do any of the kills look like they might be from either of them?

[Werebear]

As I said before, Rasconza had only one weapon of choice - throwing daggers. It was a major point in the book, and in his death scene.

[Werebear]

(pssst - Barranca, Ublatz's right hand man, died night 1)

[Werebear]

Mafia Dead:

Kazooish (Barranca)- mafia
Sparticus (Lask)- mafia with separate kill ability
amb (Ublatz)- godfather
Kingpin (Rocpaw)- mafia

Town Dead:

Green Crayons (Grath)- vigilante
jajsoccer (Durral)- doc, 1/3 chance of being cop
quercitron (Cicely)-
carebear (Townie)-
Leonidas (Townie)-
Porro (Clecky)- Investigative team
Leonidas2 (Gerul)- Investigative team
MatthewV (Craklyn)-
Degenerate (Martin II)-

The only one who's missing, really, is Barranca...

[Vegtable2001]

Right. In that case i'm against a draw for now.

quote:

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Leonidas2, poor Leonidas2...

Stabbed with a trident and then having a dagger rammed into his throat...

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[Werebear]

Throwing daggers was his weapon. There's no guarantee there isn't another sea rat out there... there were many in the book.

[Darkblade]

Vote: no draw

We should agree on whether to draw, then move on to voting to lynch, if applicable

[MadMax]

VOTE NO DRAW
reasons stated page 9

[Darkblade]

Well, Aren't awfully silent? Since nobody is disagreeing with not having a draw, I'll assume a draw will not be called today. That being said, I will VOTE: Wearbear You've been a good and funny player, but we have no guarantee that you don't have a alternative objective.

[Werebear]

Like I said, milk me for information, then throw away the entrails...

[Werebear]

Hm. I wonder why Darkblade wants the town to lynch me instead of finding Rasconza, when I could provide an extra kill towards that end....

[Darkblade]

quote:

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Leonidas2, poor Leonidas2...

Stabbed with a trident and then having a dagger rammed into his throat...

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I think this implies the dagger was held by hand, rather than thrown. Last day, I can see why letting you live would be a good thing, as we were pretty much 100% sure that amb was guilty after he tripped up on the indirect action question. Trying to lynch someone other then Wearbear today would leave an error percentage mroe than 0%. Thank you for your help and humor Wearbear, but as an SK, you must go. I feel bad, but it must be done

[Vegtable2001]

I have to agree with Darkblade on this one. So far we've been completly unsure who to have you kill, and i don't think we ever really will be sure. We have no real leads right now, and i just don't feel comfortable having an sk alive. Vote Werebear

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Flame Away

[Werebear]

One last question, then - to be fair -

Who is going to judge role claims as honest or not? I didn't see anyone else speaking up for Tansy... and if my advice had been followed, she'd still be alive now.

There is a killer alive still killing townies. It is not me. Wouldn't it be better to use me to help find the killer, and THEN kill me?

[Improbable]

As we had no deaths last night, the doc.(s) must have done good job (based on a previous comment by the Mod.).

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Concerning whether a (for all intents and purposes) confirmed SK is of more use to the town alive, depends on whether it seems probable that the SK possesses greater judgement of alignment, than the town as a whole. If it can be seen that the SK is in a position as to positively identify a suspect without a doubt, then the SK should be left alone. Although such an event seems unlikely, if at all. I conclude that said SK is most likely of a greater threat to the town, than a possible benefit from their survival.

My problem with this situation is that for Werebear to be able to target a possible killer, he would have need prior knowledge or else risk a kill. Influences of any killer aside, a town lynching performs the same task, but with reasoning and discussion to support the kill (Day One being a notable exeption in most cases). If Werebear were to kill, then the only factor that has kept him alive would be removed - that he hasn't attacked (successfully) since his revealing. Therefore it is not possible, without town concensus, for Werebear to serve a useful purpose to the town (majority support for a SK kill might help though - the SK vote I mentioned earlier in the game, maybe).

Unless a more appropriate alternative shows itself, I will Vote: Werebear.

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And now some unofficial lists....

Active players who have not posted today:

• crackerjack

Vote (to lynch) count:
Werebear - 3 (Darkblade, Improbable, Vegtable2001)

FoS Count:
No FsOS have been pointed (at least explicitly).

Draw Vote Count:
For: None have been cast.
Against: 2 (Darkblade, MadMax)

[Simple Majority = 4/5 votes (depending on if replacees count)]

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PuzzleProdigy:

1. Is there a deadline today?
   
2. Could you please update the 2^nd post? Faeriefire has been dead a while now (in calander days at least).
   
3. What is a simple majority for today? (4?/5?)
   
4. Was there a role reveal for today?
   
5. As no replacements seem to be available, what do you intend to do with these characters? Do they affect the majority?

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"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. The opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." - Niels Bohr (1885-1962)

[MadMax]

Vote Werebear
I have no reason to fOS or vote anybody else.

[Werebear]

You have no reason to. But you're going to have to sooner or later. Killing me won't help you find your last mafia. As a matter of fact, it will make it worse - because someone will come out with a role sooner or later that noone will know is false unless you've read the book. Killing me, even though I'm a serial killer, isn't smart.

Given that I'd love to get rid of the mafia (and proved it by getting Ublatz lynched and trying to prevent Tansy from being lynched) How about this for an alternate plan.

Everyone comes out with their roles. Given those, we can find out who's mafia. Isn't that how this is supposed to go? Isn't the roles our path to winnowing out who is mafia? We have 9 players left. Minus me, that makes 8. If four people have probable roles, isn't it then possible for the town to win by eliminating one omprobable role a day with a lynch, and one at night with a kill? Isn't it more likely the mafia will be found rather than lynching me, then just waiting to see who dies to judge who's the mafia? There might be 2 mafia left too, let us not forget...

Oh, and one other thing... FoS: anyone on my bandwagon. There's nothing the mafia would like more than having me lynched (other than having a cop lynched)

[Darkblade]

Not going down without a fight 'eh? That "everybody role claims" is a pretty bad plan because if you are the only one with knowlege of PoL, then you can twist and turn who you say is evil for your own benefit. We don't even know if Wearbear works alone or is part of a large group that could mess with a draw. Also, massive role claims gives the mafia way too much information at this stage. If you aren't the only one who knows about PoL, then you are expendable anyways. I'm keeping my vote.

[Vegtable2001]

Another major flaw. I'm a townie. CB was a townie. Why can't the mafia claim townies?

[Werebear]

You can do it your way if you prefer... but even you have to admit that killing me won't help you get rid of rasconza. Also - like I said - if there's four logical town roles that claim (four roles that would definitely be included), and four that claim "townie"... well, I'll let you ponder what should be done at that point. I'm sure you'll come up with a good answer.

Also, since there are so many out there that read the book, I'm sure noone will have a problem verifying that Scruvo the Jackdaw was in no way, shape, or form connected with Ublatz, the monitor lizards, the seagulls, the sea rats, or any other mafia figures. Scruvo had found one of the pearls (number 5?), and had taken the shiny trinket. When the party went to the abandoned building Scruvo lived in, they were attacked. No Ublatz connection at all. Anyone care to counter this?

[The Mayor]

I agree that if everyone gives a name of who they are, we will be able to figure out who is scum. What if everyone claims a townie? Well...then we have some bad liars.

I am the last mason with the name ?* (I have forgotten the second part of the name and don't have an email for reference any more.) All that I wrote down was "mason"

*one of the masons was a Crakyln, a younge squirrle, another was Rollo I believe, and the last was Abbot something. All I wrote down was mason though.

[MadMax]

I disagree.

1.... Role claiming is not proof of being a townie.
2.....Any claims of Doc or cop/like roles open the town up to eventual death.
3.....I would prefer to vote for a draw over claiming, and making bargains with the Mafia is against my religion

[Werebear]

...it all comes down to claiming anyways, MadMax. It always does. Otherwise it's lynching at random, which is usually not good for the town. All we're doing is skipping needless bandwagons and getting to the heart of the matter. Would you prefer we bandwagon everyone separately? Starting with you?

[MadMax]

I will not fall for this life-pleading ploy.
I assure you all I am not Mafia--------Am Anti-Mafia----and am not Rasconza.

[Werebear]

I feel so much better after your reassurances. Well, everyone, he's not Rasconza, he said so!