On the Raising of Children

[casinopete]

Okay, okay, the title is a bit heavier-sounding than I'm really aiming for, but I like it anyway. Please do not let it convince you that this thread is meant to be somber or aloof or anything.

The question this thread is really asking is, "What should a child know?"

Obviously, input based on the experience of those who have raised children will be valued, as will the immediacy of experience from those currently raising small children. But I don't want it to be limited to that! Everyone has valid things to say about this - even if you never intend to have children - because every one of us has been a child, and every one of us interacts with people they wish had been raised differently.

What I am looking for is a list (kind of). What things were you taught that made a real difference for you? What things do you wish you'd been taught? What things do you wish all the people you'd interacted with had known? What teachings do you think would develop an interesting individual?

What, if you were a parent, or godparent, or uncle, or friend of the family, would you try to introduce into a child's life?

I am interested in all of it, profound or prosaic, and I'd also like to know why. There are no wrong answers, here, and, to demonstrate, I'll mention one thing I'll teach my children:


The Game of Go:

Obviously there are other games, like Chess, that handle deep-reading and forward thinking, but they just don't do it as elegantly, or with as much bias toward the more artistic skills, like pattern recognition or shape. Further, Go is a lot more direct at teaching threat/bluffing, as in Poker, and economy, as in Settlers. I think that requiring the simultaneous use of these skills is more valuable than requiring them seperately.

Also, Go begins the introduction of other cultures. There are a lot of interesting tidbits in Chinese and Japanese history that you can branch to from Go, and I think learning about other cultures is extremely valuable in giving a child a proper perspective for how the world works.

[rolandofthewhite]

I wish that my parents had exposed me to any kind of foreign language as a child, because children absorb those skills so much easier than adults, and it makes learning them later in life easier as well.

Also, just more about other cultures in general. It helps children prepare for what is outside of their house and teaches them that the way they live isn't the only way.

[Mackay]

I would teach my children about music. to play the piano. [edit - cp says "about music" is too vague. ]

I guess I am heavily biased by the huge effect which music has had in my life, and I am also very aurally oriented. But I think it's important for everybody to have a form of expression - this usually manifests in art, whether it be visual art, writing, performance, or through any other medium. But I do have a heavy leaning toward the musical end of the spectrum.

As I have said, it provides a form of expression. Many times I have used the piano, or my sister's guitar (very clumsily), or even my voice, just to help relieve stress, or relax myself, or to convey a feeling. Learning an instrument also teaches a child co-ordination and timing, as well as the ability to listen and absorb things aurally. The ability to read music is also extremely handy. =]

Music in itself is a wonderful way to learn things. Most of the things I have taught my niece have come from singing to her, she can already clap in time to the music and everything. She knows that hitting certain notes on the piano produce certain different sounds, and likes to "wa-wa-wa" along with my sisters and I when we sing. I think music captures the attention of children better than speaking does, especially at a very young age. In this way it makes things easy to remember, in the same way that rhyming books do when the children become a little bit older. Tunes, repetitive sounds, things that stick in the mind are all very good for aiding the learning process.

Of course I would teach my children to play, but only if they want to learn. My younger sister was forced into carrying on when she wanted to quit, and she did not touch a piano for years afterward. I wouldn't want to make my kids hate music, that would break my heart.

But yeah. Definitely music. Both as something to learn in itself, and as a tool for learning other things.

*wonders if there are any songs that teach how to play Go* ;]

[Dragon Phoenix]

Go your own way - Fleetwood Mac

[Mackay]

[Ctorj]

What should a child know?
They should know the things of the world when they are ready to learn it. Every child is different and their maturity level reached certain points at certain times. The tricky part is judging when they have reache dit or not. However, some lessons are taught regardless of timelines. For example: death. When the family pet or a close family relative that the child knew dies, a new force in the world is introduced and should be explained as best as possible keeping the child's age in mind.

What, if you were a parent, or godparent, or uncle, or friend of the family, would you try to introduce into a child's life?
I would teach them about keeping an open mind because with it you can do almost anything. I would relate past experiences about how keeping an open mind has led to many promising decisions and how having a closed mind has hindered me in many ways. However, I would also teach them that having a strong opinion is important and to stand up for what you believe in. There's a balancing act to master that tales practice everyday.
Most of all, I would teach the child about being a good person and how to use the goodness already inside of them to help others. This can be done many different ways. I would use the religion route and install a deep faith in them; one that they can carry with them their whole lives.
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[Dragon Phoenix]

[Ctorj]

If you define having a religion as being closed minded, yes. However, it is not. Hard to explain. I guess you have to have one to understand. Nothing against you DP or anyone else. You all might have a deep faith in your own religion. I don't know.
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[Mackay]

With regards to faith, I would rather present my faith to my children as an option rather than trying to "install" it in them. Christianity should be a choice, and preferably an educated one. Of course I will not hesitate to teach them as much as I can about my faith, but I would certainly not make them choose it.

^{...though I would very much hope that they did.}

[Ctorj]

I have seen far too many children go down the wrong path because they were not taught anything about God from their parents. I see what you're saying about choice Mackay, but the way I see it is this:

I have a faith I believe is right and true. If I tell my child "You have a choice to follow me or not", I am breaking the grounds on the faith I want them to learn about so much. It is more about being true to your beliefs. I believe that since my choice in my religion is the truth, I will teach it to my children and make sure they know that it is the truth as well. Giving them options says to them "Yes I believe in my faith, but not enough to tell you to join me in it."

I totally understand that you want them to make their own choice....and they will. Take this example: I teach my child about how our faith is the right one and all that good stuff. When they turn 18 and go to college, they have to make choices everyday without me being there whether or not to stand up for their faith. In high school and even middle school as well. They will learn about other faiths and ask questions. I won't ever tell them "Be in my faith or suffer!". That's not very good parenting at all. However, I will love them to the best of my ability.
That's all I got.

*Whew!*
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[Dragon Phoenix]

[Ctorj]

I see DP is better at words than I am. What you said was much closer to what I intended to say, but I still want my kids to know my faith first before other faiths are introduced to them. At least I know I tried my best if they change faiths, if they choose to do so.
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[Mackay]

[Mackay]

Whoops, I'm derailing the thread already.

Another thing I would like for my children to learn is to speak in public. This is one of those "what had a large effect on you" things for me; I used to be ridiculously timid. My fifth grade teacher (best teacher I ever had really) pushed me into public speaking. On my first few attempts I ran. Like, seriously. I ran for it. But he kept trying - getting me first to read small poems I'd written, moving on to stories, things like that - in front of the class. I still could not perform a speech by the time I finished the fifth grade, but a year later, having overcome my initial terror, I was winning public speaking competitions.

It sounds like something fairly stupid, I suppose, but I really really love the fact that I can stand up in front of people and talk. It bolstered my confidence, not only in my ability to speak in front of people, but my ability to speak to people as well. And... well... look at me now. Anyone who was at jeepcon knows I don't shut up.

I think interactive ability and confidence are both tremendously important, just in getting through day-to-day life.

[The Ktulu]

[EEEM]

This may seem like an obvious one, but some people certainly don't do it... Teach them basic life skills!!! I just moved into a house with three other college students and one of them has no practical concept of how to cook, clean, or keep a house in working order. His mother did everything for him as a child. We actually had to SHOW him how to make Ramen... He wasn't confident he would know when the water was "boiling enough" to put the noodles in.

So yes, teach your children basic cooking skills, make them do the dishes, mop the floors, vacuum, mow the lawn. And also things like how to pay bills, interact with people at banks, on the phone dealing with business matters, etc. I think it's important to expose kids to that as they grow up as part of the "this is what you'll have to do as a grown up" package.

I wish I knew more about basic car maintenance and mechanical things. My dad is pretty handy and I never took an active interest in watching him do mechanical things, but if he had said "hey, come work on the car with me" I would have and I would be more handy now.

I think it's just really important to involve your kids in everyday tasks even if they're too small to actually take part. I spent many hours sitting in the kitchen watching my dad cook before I was old enough to help out and it really helped me when I began to cook for myself. Little everyday things like writing a check can be overlooked, so just be involved.

And I think maybe the religion and kids topic needs its own thread... but I'll leave that up to someone else.

[Lucresia]

[Courk]

Lots of longer posts there, I'll admit I haven't read them yet.

I'd teach my children about the American Civil War. My uncle is very much into it, and introduced it to my brother and me. It's an important part of our history, and with some battlefields being in danger today, I think it's important for future generations to learn about it so they can continue to preserve those historic sites. And it wouldn't just be telling the children what happened somewhere in Pennsylvania and Virginia, it'd be taking them to those places. I've been to Gettysburg once in my life, and I loved it. I was only in 4th grade at the time, so I doubt I really grasped everything, but just to see where the soldiers fought and realizing that so many people died on such beautiful ground -- it's indescribable. Re-enactments are also valuable educational tools.

Something I wish I had been taught more of is World War II history, especially the European theater. The extent of my knowledge on that is Rommel, Churchill, Patton, something something. It's shamefully small.

I would rarely take my children on vacation to just relax. So many people in my high school would come back from vacations to the Bahamas or a cruise. Obviously it's nice to get away, and I do think I would take my children to Disney World sometime, but vacations like that need to be balanced with more educational excursions. Zoos and museums are easy trips to take to provide children with knowledge.

[RSA]

basically i would raise a child to be as little like me as possible. assuming i was trying to do what was best for it/the world.

[Pablo]

Children need the same things dogs need,

Discipline, Exercise, Affection. If they get all of these from their parents, they will be happy for life.

[Internet Stranger]

I guess just leaving the kids alone isnt an option?
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[firemeboy]

[casinopete]

Vague principles like "about death," "an open mind," "discipline, exercise, affection," "the love of learning," and "the ability to learn" are all fine things to think about, and belong in this thread, but they'd be more useful if more specific things were added suggesting a means of pursuing them.

For instance, the simplest one to extend would probably be exercise. Should you encourage a personal kind of training like yoga, tai-chi, weight lifting? A sport, say basketball or soccer? Something in-between like cycling? All of the above? How would you teach your children the importance of exercise?

Another thing, if some people are having trouble adding things: I'd also be interested in lists of books, so long as you mention why. My kids will certainly have a copy of the Giving Tree available when they are very young. It is engaging and well-written while touching on several of the big life lessons like aging and love. It's as close to a perfect children's book as I have ever encountered.

[firemeboy]

The Giver is a good book.

While specifics are nice, sometimes you kind of have to do things on the fly. You may have a nice plan of how things are going to work, and then when you actually sit down to do it, the plan gets shot to hell. You have to improvise. I have had several times when my boys have said, "Let's do this." I know that "this" isn't going to work, but I go along with it. The trial and error of the whole event is much more educational than me simply saying, "Sorry, that would never work."

A lot boils down to just spending time with them. Even if it's letting them tag along while you change the oil or tinker away at something.

And for exercise, nothing beats some good geocaching.

[Agamemnon]

[Da5id]

[Da5id]

[The Ktulu]

Oh yes, EEEM makes a good point about the cooking and cleaning skills, something that slipped my mind as my parents made sure we knew how to take care of a house...

[Beartalon]

[jeep]

How to handle money. How? Use an allowance for the purpose of teaching kids to deal with money, to save up for what they want, and help them understand the value of things. Do not use it as a punishment/reward system. It makes a good p/r system, BUT doing so detracts from the value of money lesson. Besides, they might decide it's worth paying you to clean the bathroom... Chores won't be optional in my home. (See the previous "life skills" comment.)

I read a GREAT article on this subject of teaching money skills in one of those free airline magazines. It perfectly articulated what I wish my folks had done and what I hope to do.

-JEEP

[Doc Borodog]

I know one thing your kids shouldn't know: What the inside of a public school looks like.

[firemeboy]

Amen to that.

[rolandofthewhite]

You should teach them how to Zorb. How awesome would that be?

[Aarondalf]

I think I must think a lot like Casinopete.

On top of teaching them go, how to read at an early age and mathematics I would also say this:

If you have a boy, give that bastard a set of blocks, or a train set or SOMETHING that he can build with, without rules or boundaries.

I honestly attribute most of my mathematical success in school to the fact that I played with "Construct" for hours.

[EEEM]

Why should you only give a boy the blocks?

In an ideal world I think we should teach our kids to ignore the gender binary... but that will never be practical nor accepted... and it's a whole new discussion.

[Chuck]

Little girls get little toy pots and pans.

[Pablo]

[Pablo]

[MatthewV]

Highschool age students should be encourage/forced to spend a year abroad. It solves the second language part also.

All of my positive childhood memories are from things that happened while playing around outside. The inside world is not the best world for a child.

Pets teach children wonderful things about life. Expically turkeys. :) And many chores a child can easily do are centered around the daily needs of an animal.

I read someone's dislike for vacations but have to disagree. The three vacations my family took (every four years) were worthwhile and memoriable. But the places we went to were not overly touristy. (Florida (can't say I remember much of this one), Puerto Rico and Utah). Each trip also last a whole month.

But I think the best plan for raising children would be to make everything up as you go along...

[Kltpzyxm]

That the hyphen is the most ethical of punctuation marks, followed somewhat closely by the open parens. Tied for third? The semicolon and close parens.
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