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doormouse11 · Daedalian Member

What role do women play in Islam/Islamic society? What role do men have?

How is the world going to end?

cloudRunner · Daedalian Member

cR · Guest

I seached up the word "fatwah" out of curiousity. Interesting.

Samadhi · +1

cloudRunner · Daedalian Member

The verse is referring to how people will not care about valuable things. Back in the day, camels were prized possessions, especially pregnant ones. It's not like God would say "And when the red Ferraris shall be neglected".
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Forever is such an unpleasant word

jadesmar · Bad Puppy

You aren't going to tell me a story. Are you? Dispirited

Samadhi · +1

And my real question hasn't been answered.
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

wordcross · Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:15 pm Post subject: 90

Sorry to have neglected all of this. I haven't forgotten, just sort of been lazy. I've got the story, I'll tell it this evening, and I'll go back over the thread and pick up all of the unanswered questions.
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wordcross · Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:13 am Post subject: 91

Okay, the "Bring the Mountain to Mohammed" story:

Mohammed went to the City of Ta'if to spread the word of Islam. When he started telling the people of the city about Islam, they ridiculed him, spat on him, and threw stones at him. He ran away from the city, and as he was traveling back to Mecca, he in anger said that if he could go and lift a mountain, he would drop it on the people of Ta'if for so rejecting Islam. Then, the Angel of the mountains came to him and said that if Mohammed so wished, the Angel would bring a mountain and crush the city. Mohammed then said no, do not crush it, for there may be descendants of the people of Ta'if who may accept Islam.

That, From what I've been told, is the origin of the saying "If Mohammed will not go to the mountain, bring the mountain to Mohammed."
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wordcross · Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:01 am Post subject: 92

What role do women play in Islam/Islamic society? What role do men have?
In general, the women are caregivers/mothers/wives. Men are usually the bread-winners/rulemakers etc. This is not to say that it's forbidden for the woman to work or make the rules, or forbidden for men to stay home and raise the children. In fact, women who don't have children or whose children have grown up are encouraged to work, at all levels, as doctors, in government, in markets and trade, teaching, and just about anything a man would do. The reason that women are normally expected to care for the children and the men to support the family and be head of household is that men and women were created for those tasks. Women, as a whole, are better at raising children, better at giving care and showing compassion, better at teaching and fostering growth. Men, on the other hand, are generally stronger and better able to provide for a family, and are more problem-solving oriented, hence their position as head of household.
Again, this is just in general, and it is quite alright if the woman wants to work and the man wants to stay at home with the children (if there are any). If there are children, it is very highly recommended that at least one parent (usually the mother) stay at home to raise them. If you don't raise your own children, or don't give them enough attention and support, then there's no way to make sure that they get the education and worldview that you want for them, and they may pick up ideas from elsewhere that you certainly don't want.

I hope that answers your question, Doormouse Revenge most foul!

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wordcross · Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:25 am Post subject: 93

What's with the 72 virgins thing?

Surprisingly enough, the straightdope board has covered this topic, and more surprisingly still, did a half-decent job.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/011214.html

About the 72 virgins thing, they've done their homework, but about the "nonfundamentalist Muslims don't take the cosmological parts of the Koran any more literally than nonfundamentalist Christians take the biblical story of Genesis" thing, Either I and a large majority of other muslims are fundamentalist, or these guys are just making it up...
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wordcross · Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:38 am Post subject: 94

Going back to the discussion on cholesterol:
So avoiding healthy fatty acids that are beneficial to you is bad, yes? This law could not have come from God as the proof has only been around for several years, so who made this law then?

A) The time periods when men discover things about medicine and the way the world works don't limit God. If he'd wanted to, he could have put Cholesterol in the Qur'an. He certainly described Pregnancy accurately and in much more detail than was known to man in 600 C.E. But this is beside your point.

B) (This also goes with some of what extro was saying about man's interpretation of God's Word.) There are set methods of Islamic Jurisprudence that say how a person is supposed to interpret the Qur'an. And for things that were not addressed directly in 600 C.E. (driving cars, for example) there are set methods for giving rulings on them. For example, on method of determining a ruling is to use analogy. Let's take an example, say, of driving cars. You might say that since the Prophet used to ride camels, i.e. use means of transportation other than walking, and that they also had wagons that were pulled by beasts of burden, cars are used for the same purposes, and therefore are allowed.

Now, obviously no one would even argue that cars might not be allowed, and it's not that simple anyway. In most cases there are several methods used to come to a conclusion, and many factors that must be weighed in order to make a more complete and comprehensive ruling. Only those trained in how to use these methods have the authority and ability to give fatawas and rulings.

The reason for all of this is that God is the only legislator, the only one who can outright create laws. All other rulings must be made with reference to laws He has already given.
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wordcross · Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:45 am Post subject: 95

wordcross · Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:49 am Post subject: 96

That's all for now. The others I'll get to later Felicitous

Incidentally, here's a list of questions I saw that I haven't answered directly:

Is there anyway to distinguish between a thief and someone who has lost a hand in an accident? Would the latter be ostricised still?

Basically, the jist of this post is this: Tell me a story, from the Qu'ran (sp?) and make it a good one, suitable for children.

How is [Qur'an] supposed to be pronounced?

Story of changing Qibla to Ka'ba

You once told me that Mohammed was sinless, but that he made mistakes sometimes and was "corrected" by God. What were these mistakes?

How is the world going to end?

If there is real truth (in re god), why are there so many disparate religions...and furthermore why do people tend to believe one way based on nothing more that what their parents believed?

If you had or have a question I haven't listed or haven't gotten around to, please feel free to ask it / point it out to me. Felicitous

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Samadhi · +1

Samadhi · +1

wordcross · Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 10:37 am Post subject: 99

yep, that's right
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wordcross · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:28 am Post subject: 100

Ramadan Mubarak!
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Samadhi · +1

wordcross · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:24 am Post subject: 102

heh, I tend to pride myself on being able to do that *nudge*

so, just out of curiosity, what did you expect as an answer? Felicitous

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Samadhi · +1

I expected that these rules were created by (I forget the word for muslim religions leaders) to explain their rulings. Like some counsel way back when or something. Obviously that would have been contradictory to some of your earlier statements regarding Muhammed.
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mith · Pitbull of Truth

wordcross · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:19 am Post subject: 105

It is the equivalent (i.e. his son is replaced by a sheep/goat/ram). But it is the other son, Isma'il, according to Islam.
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Courk · Daedalian Member

Here's a Ramadan question:

I get dehydrated easily and will pass out if I get dehydrated. During Ramadan you can't drink while the sun's out. Is there any sort of exception for peopel like me? Not drinking wouldn't kill me, but I'd feel absolutely horrible.

wordcross · Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:16 am Post subject: 107

Fasting is not meant to be an undue hardship on anyone to whom it would cause harm. It would be better if you fasted and altered your activities to avoid dehydrating yourself as much as is possible. Sleeping during the day is a good way to help yourself get through the day more quickly.

But if you cannot really change your activities, and you find yourself dehydrating to a point where it makes you sick, then you may, instead, feed the poor. It is better to do the fasting, if you can, but provision is made for those who cannot.
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Hitchhiker · Finally got a ride.

I liked the straightdope article about the 72 virgins, but it didn't settle some of the things I was curious about. Are there a different set of 72 for each man who dies? Are they actual young women who died with their virginity intact, or are they spirits like the Christian angels, who never lived a mortal life on earth?

Rudy* · Guest

Also, what if what you don't want a virgin, but someone with a bit more experience who can 'go' a little?

wordcross · Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:32 pm Post subject: 110

Are there a different set of 72 for each man who dies? Are they actual young women who died with their virginity intact, or are they spirits like the Christian angels, who never lived a mortal life on earth?

Well, depends on what you mean by different set. If you mean that each man gets 72, so that two men would have, between them, 144, well then yes, they don't share the same set. But as you probably mean, are there distinguishing characteristics between each man's 72, well, I don't think anyone *knows* that, but I'd say it's pretty safe to assume that they'd all look different, or however you like. It is heaven, after all, with the "Ask and Ye shall recieve" clause and everything Revenge most foul!

No, the 72 virgins are not actual young women who lived (how unfair would that be?). They're given the status of Hhoureen (intentional double h there. it's a sort of a hard h sound) and are spirits who never lived a mortal life, as you put it. Revenge most foul!

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wordcross · Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:34 pm Post subject: 111

Also, what if what you don't want a virgin, but someone with a bit more experience who can 'go' a little?

Their virginity indicates their pure state, not their abilities. God has granted them skill while preserving their purity forever. They can "go" as long as you can Razz

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Rudy* · Guest

Marvellous

Rudy* · Guest

What is the Islamic stance on homosexuality?

wordcross · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:37 pm Post subject: 114

Pretty much what you'd expect. Homosexuality is a sin, punishable by death under Islamic Law. There have to be multiple witnesses to the act, and from what i've heard the punishment is to be thrown off of the tallest structure in the town (I don't know, however, if this is universal or a shi'i ruling. Perhaps I'll look into it)
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Samadhi · +1

I'd heard that it's okay to be gay, but not to practice it. And if you behave you get action in heaven.
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wordcross · Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:09 am Post subject: 116

Interesting. I've never heard anything like that. But then, there are websites that claim to be for "Gay Muslims" so I'm not necessarily surprised, either. I'm pretty sure i can say that it isn't mainstream Islam.
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OcularGold · Daedalian Member

Do you think administering capitol punishment is characteristic of a kind and merciful God? If so, how so?

How is it just that God would make one a homosexual and then punish this person for how God created him?

If you believe that homosexuality is an artifact of Western culture, then how do you explain the existence of homosexuality way before modern Western civilization? Why would mention of homosexuality be in the Koran and the Bible if these books were written way before modern Western civilization?

wordcross · Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:31 am Post subject: 118

Do you think administering capitol punishment is characteristic of a kind and merciful God? If so, how so?
Actually, administering capitol punishment is not a characteristic of a kind and merciful god. It's characteristic of a just god. People often seem to think that being just and being kind and generous are mutually exclusive, that if a god is one, he cannot be the other. God is kind to those whom He wills, He is merciful to those who ask Him for mercy, as He wills, and He is wrathful to those who incur His anger, and He is never unjust. Every person will have what is due him, either in this life or the next.

How is it just that God would make one a homosexual and then punish this person for how God created him?
You're assuming that I believe God makes someone homosexual. I don't.

If you believe that homosexuality is an artifact of Western culture, then how do you explain the existence of homosexuality way before modern Western civilization? Why would mention of homosexuality be in the Koran and the Bible if these books were written way before modern Western civilization?
Modern civilization is not, of course, the first to be accepting of Homosexuality. I never meant to imply such a distinction. Only that Western Society today is more a cause of homosexuality than other cultures of the present day, and therefore is like the cultures of the past where the same was true.
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OcularGold · Daedalian Member

How do you reply to scientific studies that indicate that homosexuality is genetically based?

Samadhi · +1

And taking that one step further, suppose that it was proven to be genetically or rather biologically determined instead of being a "choice," how would you reply then?
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.