Abortion

[mudbuck]

A group of people claim that abortion represents the freedom of choice (for the parent, not the fetus), although becoming pregnant also represents this. Most times, each person has the choice of sex. From Scuba diving to chain smoking to driving to eating to running, activities carry risks. Accepting these risks is part of participation.

Risks tend to be unfavorable and thus are wanted to be removed. For example, smoking may lead to lung or heart disease, although, in this case, to remove the problem requires replacement. In sex, the risk of pregnancy might be favorable long term. Unfortunately, a pregnancy is more efficient to remove, so rather some ex-mothers see the abortion as the blessing rather than the child.

Sometimes life sucks, and a woman is raped. Childbirth, however, is, most of the time, not fatal. Pregnancy only takes several months. A mother could easily give up the child for adoption simply by giving it to a local police or fire station or the local hospital. The child then can live on happily without her commitment. If she is in school, she could be allowed to stay at home and do schoolwork until childbirth. Or, she may choose to repeat the year.

Deadly pregnanies are, however, concerning. Perhaps this is when the mother can decide to abort, after learning about the details. It is important for her to understand how much is being risked.

With a more informed society, abortion would be nearly unnecessary. It only requires accepting the risks.

[edit: blah. Silly me]

[wordcross]

Allow me to pre-emptively cringe at the flames you're about to receive.


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Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

[Antrax]

[extro...*]

[EEEM]

I must say I am not in the most clear and sober state of mind at the moment, but I'm going to hit this anyway. I apologize if I'm unclear or my arguments are more like insults.

So. I'm pro-choice. And contrary to popular belief being pro-choice doesn't mean I would get an abortion for my own unplanned pregnancy. I think that having an abortion would be too emotionally difficult for me personally. I think that I would be able to emotionally, mentally, and physically withstand a pregnancy, and either raise a child or be emotionally prepared to give it up for adoption. So I personally couldn't justify an abortion for myself. But some women aren't at a point in their lives that I am. Being pregnant, whether by rape or a bad sexual decision, is a huge responsibility physically and mentally. Some women wouldn't be able to handle it safely. Should an addict be forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term even if she refuses to give up drugs because she doesn't care about the fetus at all? So then we have a child who suffers, a mother who suffers, and a cycle of shit that results.

I don't think abortion is an ideal solution. But I also don't think a cycle of unwanted children and shame for not being ready to have a child. People have unwanted kids but feel guilted into raising them. Those kids don't get the love and nurturing needed to flourish, they get pregnant early and continue the cycle. Imagine if people were allowed to only have kids when they think they're ready? Obviously that's no guarantee of good parenthood, but a wanted child is bound to be a little more nurtured. That's also not to say unexpected pregnancies always result in kids who continue the cycle of unwanted kids. There are great kids who were accidents. I just think we have to consider the cycles here. Breaking the cycle may lead to long term gain.

It also helps that I don't consider early term abortions to be "murder." And that I'm not religious.

[jesternl]

I was about to say what extro said...

[Coyote]

Before this discussion goes much further, I'd like to propose a moratorium on the following (parenthetical) argument:

[extro...*]

OK, hypothetical analogy:

I go out driving and accidentally hit a pedestrian. He is incapacitated, and now requires someone to provide care for him as he can't take care of himself. Being responsible for this accident, I am responsible for putting someone in a position where they require someone to care for them for their survival. I become responsible for providing for that persons care.

I go out screwing, and accidentally ... well, you get the picture.

This is why I say the question is ultimeately about whether we're talking about a person, or a "lump of tissue". Argue that, and nothing else, or address why that isn't really relevant.

[Samadhi]

I agree, that is THE crux of the issue.

While there are other arguments pro/con, they fade to inconsequence in the light of that issue.
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[extro...*]

This could be trhe first abortion argument that fizzles out before the flames. Wow.

[Samadhi]

The furnace is over in OT.
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[MillerTime]

I have a female friend who says that men shouldn't have opinions on abortion, since they'll never be pregnant and so it doesn't really concern them. Which I guess is true, unless you're the father of the unborn child.

[Samadhi]

So women past menopause, or who've had hysterectomies shouldn't have an opinion on it either?
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[extro...*]

[GH]

Statistically speaking, it's incredibly unlikely that you will ever be murdered, so your opinion on outlawing murder should matter very little. On the other hand, it's incredibly likely that a murderer will be involved in a murder, so his opinion should matter most.

[mudbuck]

I haven't thought about that EEEM. Or I have then forgotten that I ever came to that conclusion. Whatever the reason, thanks EEEM and everyone else.

[EEEM]

You're welcome.

I think arguments about when life begins, rules about later term abortions, etc. are extremely important when it comes to the legal issues of abortion... but I think people pass up the emotional and physical impacts on the mothers and kids when they're fighting. So I like to argue about those.